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Are there physical dangers to preparing a prepared piano?


Is there a canonical piano grading system?Are there any compositions for piano that are impossible to play without a full-range keyboard?What are “full size” piano keys?Are there any good exercises for piano polyrhythm playing beyond Brahms exercises and Chopin?Rock , pop music , four part harmony and couterpoint , how are they relate to? Where I should start?Do there exist contemporary composers writing in the style of Viennese classical music?How often is the Sostenuto pedal used in classical and modern Piano Music?Are there good plug-n-play boxes to give piano sounds to a midi only keyboard?Why are there 7 sharps when there are only 5 black keys on a piano?What are piano keys made of?













4















A prepared piano is a piano that has various objects applied directly onto (and perhaps into) the strings.



enter image description here



The concept is most famous from John Cage, and his Sonata No. V is a common favorite; it's a one-man tribal gamelan!








I'm wondering if there are any dangers to preparing a prepared piano. I'm specifically curious about inserting screws, and whether doing so might affect the integrity of the strings, resulting in possible damage to the piano and to the preparer/performer.










share|improve this question























  • If you don't know him already you should definitely check out Hauschka. Lately he's been creating movie scores, but before that he recorded several albums using prepared pianos

    – Creynders
    7 hours ago











  • I used to put thumb packs in to the hammers. That was certainly not good for the hammers. The most harmless was a tissue paper between string and hammers.

    – Albrecht Hügli
    6 hours ago











  • In this video Nahre Sol and Damon Groves demonstrate and discuss how to prepare a piano without damaging it: youtube.com/watch?v=Yi_iefmmuu4&t=1m20s

    – Your Uncle Bob
    9 mins ago
















4















A prepared piano is a piano that has various objects applied directly onto (and perhaps into) the strings.



enter image description here



The concept is most famous from John Cage, and his Sonata No. V is a common favorite; it's a one-man tribal gamelan!








I'm wondering if there are any dangers to preparing a prepared piano. I'm specifically curious about inserting screws, and whether doing so might affect the integrity of the strings, resulting in possible damage to the piano and to the preparer/performer.










share|improve this question























  • If you don't know him already you should definitely check out Hauschka. Lately he's been creating movie scores, but before that he recorded several albums using prepared pianos

    – Creynders
    7 hours ago











  • I used to put thumb packs in to the hammers. That was certainly not good for the hammers. The most harmless was a tissue paper between string and hammers.

    – Albrecht Hügli
    6 hours ago











  • In this video Nahre Sol and Damon Groves demonstrate and discuss how to prepare a piano without damaging it: youtube.com/watch?v=Yi_iefmmuu4&t=1m20s

    – Your Uncle Bob
    9 mins ago














4












4








4








A prepared piano is a piano that has various objects applied directly onto (and perhaps into) the strings.



enter image description here



The concept is most famous from John Cage, and his Sonata No. V is a common favorite; it's a one-man tribal gamelan!








I'm wondering if there are any dangers to preparing a prepared piano. I'm specifically curious about inserting screws, and whether doing so might affect the integrity of the strings, resulting in possible damage to the piano and to the preparer/performer.










share|improve this question














A prepared piano is a piano that has various objects applied directly onto (and perhaps into) the strings.



enter image description here



The concept is most famous from John Cage, and his Sonata No. V is a common favorite; it's a one-man tribal gamelan!








I'm wondering if there are any dangers to preparing a prepared piano. I'm specifically curious about inserting screws, and whether doing so might affect the integrity of the strings, resulting in possible damage to the piano and to the preparer/performer.















piano modern-music






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 7 hours ago









RichardRichard

46.5k7112199




46.5k7112199













  • If you don't know him already you should definitely check out Hauschka. Lately he's been creating movie scores, but before that he recorded several albums using prepared pianos

    – Creynders
    7 hours ago











  • I used to put thumb packs in to the hammers. That was certainly not good for the hammers. The most harmless was a tissue paper between string and hammers.

    – Albrecht Hügli
    6 hours ago











  • In this video Nahre Sol and Damon Groves demonstrate and discuss how to prepare a piano without damaging it: youtube.com/watch?v=Yi_iefmmuu4&t=1m20s

    – Your Uncle Bob
    9 mins ago



















  • If you don't know him already you should definitely check out Hauschka. Lately he's been creating movie scores, but before that he recorded several albums using prepared pianos

    – Creynders
    7 hours ago











  • I used to put thumb packs in to the hammers. That was certainly not good for the hammers. The most harmless was a tissue paper between string and hammers.

    – Albrecht Hügli
    6 hours ago











  • In this video Nahre Sol and Damon Groves demonstrate and discuss how to prepare a piano without damaging it: youtube.com/watch?v=Yi_iefmmuu4&t=1m20s

    – Your Uncle Bob
    9 mins ago

















If you don't know him already you should definitely check out Hauschka. Lately he's been creating movie scores, but before that he recorded several albums using prepared pianos

– Creynders
7 hours ago





If you don't know him already you should definitely check out Hauschka. Lately he's been creating movie scores, but before that he recorded several albums using prepared pianos

– Creynders
7 hours ago













I used to put thumb packs in to the hammers. That was certainly not good for the hammers. The most harmless was a tissue paper between string and hammers.

– Albrecht Hügli
6 hours ago





I used to put thumb packs in to the hammers. That was certainly not good for the hammers. The most harmless was a tissue paper between string and hammers.

– Albrecht Hügli
6 hours ago













In this video Nahre Sol and Damon Groves demonstrate and discuss how to prepare a piano without damaging it: youtube.com/watch?v=Yi_iefmmuu4&t=1m20s

– Your Uncle Bob
9 mins ago





In this video Nahre Sol and Damon Groves demonstrate and discuss how to prepare a piano without damaging it: youtube.com/watch?v=Yi_iefmmuu4&t=1m20s

– Your Uncle Bob
9 mins ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















4














I've never heard of a string breaking or a piano being damaged (i.e. actively needing to be repaired) after being prepared. That said, your question is the specific reason why many institutions / organizations do not allow their pianos to be prepared: they are afraid of the possibility of damage.



This is similar to a violinist refusing to play col legno with their $20,000 bow. Often times they'll whip out a cheap "beater" bow that they don't care about. Similarly with pianos, many institutions have less-wonderful pianos that they won't mind if they get damaged.



Will using screws 1 time to prepare the piano hurt the strings? Not likely. But doing it repeatedly, in the same locations, for long periods of time? I think about the most damage one would see would be that the strings wear out faster. At around $1000 to replace, not everybody can afford new strings.



That said, it also depends on what you use. Objects like pieces of paper, plastic straws, and paper or wood are all less harmful to the strings as their material is softer. Any object whose material matches or exceeds the strings in hardness will damage the strings (this same principle is used in percussion playing).



With screws specifically I think it would have most to do with thickness and with how pronounced the grooves are. A machine screw will affect the piano differently than a wood screw. Whatever you use, I fail to see how a performer might get injured (unless they're playing a piece where they frequently move from playing outside to inside the piano, violently and loudly).



Many performers shy away from this type of music because:




  1. It takes a lot of time to prepare a piano

  2. It's hard to find an available piano

  3. They themselves are afraid of damaging the piano






share|improve this answer
























  • What about danger to the preparer? Could a string break and lash the preparer?

    – Michael Curtis
    6 hours ago



















3














Yes, you could potentially damage the piano. The likelihood of you damaging the piano depends on the specifics of the preparation. Even if the actual likelihood of damage is low, you must also consider the piano owner's perception of the likelihood of damage. If the piano is not yours, always ask the owner for permission before preparing. If you're at an academic institution, they might have a piano designated for this purpose, so talk to someone in the department.



It's not just a matter of what you're putting on the string; how you do it is just as important. For example, in your photo showing bolts between the strings, notice how they are held quite tightly by the stings? You can tell because they are actually displacing the strings. If this is what you want to do, don't screw the bolts in or use force to push them in! The correct way to do this is to use a wedge to spread the strings first, then insert the bolt, then remove the wedge. I think the common sense thing to do would be to have the strings resting in the groove between threads, so select your materials accordingly.



If you (or the piano's owner) is worried about damage, there might be a less risky alternative to achieve the same or similar effect. Focus on the sound you want and be creative.






share|improve this answer
























    Your Answer








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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    4














    I've never heard of a string breaking or a piano being damaged (i.e. actively needing to be repaired) after being prepared. That said, your question is the specific reason why many institutions / organizations do not allow their pianos to be prepared: they are afraid of the possibility of damage.



    This is similar to a violinist refusing to play col legno with their $20,000 bow. Often times they'll whip out a cheap "beater" bow that they don't care about. Similarly with pianos, many institutions have less-wonderful pianos that they won't mind if they get damaged.



    Will using screws 1 time to prepare the piano hurt the strings? Not likely. But doing it repeatedly, in the same locations, for long periods of time? I think about the most damage one would see would be that the strings wear out faster. At around $1000 to replace, not everybody can afford new strings.



    That said, it also depends on what you use. Objects like pieces of paper, plastic straws, and paper or wood are all less harmful to the strings as their material is softer. Any object whose material matches or exceeds the strings in hardness will damage the strings (this same principle is used in percussion playing).



    With screws specifically I think it would have most to do with thickness and with how pronounced the grooves are. A machine screw will affect the piano differently than a wood screw. Whatever you use, I fail to see how a performer might get injured (unless they're playing a piece where they frequently move from playing outside to inside the piano, violently and loudly).



    Many performers shy away from this type of music because:




    1. It takes a lot of time to prepare a piano

    2. It's hard to find an available piano

    3. They themselves are afraid of damaging the piano






    share|improve this answer
























    • What about danger to the preparer? Could a string break and lash the preparer?

      – Michael Curtis
      6 hours ago
















    4














    I've never heard of a string breaking or a piano being damaged (i.e. actively needing to be repaired) after being prepared. That said, your question is the specific reason why many institutions / organizations do not allow their pianos to be prepared: they are afraid of the possibility of damage.



    This is similar to a violinist refusing to play col legno with their $20,000 bow. Often times they'll whip out a cheap "beater" bow that they don't care about. Similarly with pianos, many institutions have less-wonderful pianos that they won't mind if they get damaged.



    Will using screws 1 time to prepare the piano hurt the strings? Not likely. But doing it repeatedly, in the same locations, for long periods of time? I think about the most damage one would see would be that the strings wear out faster. At around $1000 to replace, not everybody can afford new strings.



    That said, it also depends on what you use. Objects like pieces of paper, plastic straws, and paper or wood are all less harmful to the strings as their material is softer. Any object whose material matches or exceeds the strings in hardness will damage the strings (this same principle is used in percussion playing).



    With screws specifically I think it would have most to do with thickness and with how pronounced the grooves are. A machine screw will affect the piano differently than a wood screw. Whatever you use, I fail to see how a performer might get injured (unless they're playing a piece where they frequently move from playing outside to inside the piano, violently and loudly).



    Many performers shy away from this type of music because:




    1. It takes a lot of time to prepare a piano

    2. It's hard to find an available piano

    3. They themselves are afraid of damaging the piano






    share|improve this answer
























    • What about danger to the preparer? Could a string break and lash the preparer?

      – Michael Curtis
      6 hours ago














    4












    4








    4







    I've never heard of a string breaking or a piano being damaged (i.e. actively needing to be repaired) after being prepared. That said, your question is the specific reason why many institutions / organizations do not allow their pianos to be prepared: they are afraid of the possibility of damage.



    This is similar to a violinist refusing to play col legno with their $20,000 bow. Often times they'll whip out a cheap "beater" bow that they don't care about. Similarly with pianos, many institutions have less-wonderful pianos that they won't mind if they get damaged.



    Will using screws 1 time to prepare the piano hurt the strings? Not likely. But doing it repeatedly, in the same locations, for long periods of time? I think about the most damage one would see would be that the strings wear out faster. At around $1000 to replace, not everybody can afford new strings.



    That said, it also depends on what you use. Objects like pieces of paper, plastic straws, and paper or wood are all less harmful to the strings as their material is softer. Any object whose material matches or exceeds the strings in hardness will damage the strings (this same principle is used in percussion playing).



    With screws specifically I think it would have most to do with thickness and with how pronounced the grooves are. A machine screw will affect the piano differently than a wood screw. Whatever you use, I fail to see how a performer might get injured (unless they're playing a piece where they frequently move from playing outside to inside the piano, violently and loudly).



    Many performers shy away from this type of music because:




    1. It takes a lot of time to prepare a piano

    2. It's hard to find an available piano

    3. They themselves are afraid of damaging the piano






    share|improve this answer













    I've never heard of a string breaking or a piano being damaged (i.e. actively needing to be repaired) after being prepared. That said, your question is the specific reason why many institutions / organizations do not allow their pianos to be prepared: they are afraid of the possibility of damage.



    This is similar to a violinist refusing to play col legno with their $20,000 bow. Often times they'll whip out a cheap "beater" bow that they don't care about. Similarly with pianos, many institutions have less-wonderful pianos that they won't mind if they get damaged.



    Will using screws 1 time to prepare the piano hurt the strings? Not likely. But doing it repeatedly, in the same locations, for long periods of time? I think about the most damage one would see would be that the strings wear out faster. At around $1000 to replace, not everybody can afford new strings.



    That said, it also depends on what you use. Objects like pieces of paper, plastic straws, and paper or wood are all less harmful to the strings as their material is softer. Any object whose material matches or exceeds the strings in hardness will damage the strings (this same principle is used in percussion playing).



    With screws specifically I think it would have most to do with thickness and with how pronounced the grooves are. A machine screw will affect the piano differently than a wood screw. Whatever you use, I fail to see how a performer might get injured (unless they're playing a piece where they frequently move from playing outside to inside the piano, violently and loudly).



    Many performers shy away from this type of music because:




    1. It takes a lot of time to prepare a piano

    2. It's hard to find an available piano

    3. They themselves are afraid of damaging the piano







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 6 hours ago









    jjmusicnotesjjmusicnotes

    21.6k23194




    21.6k23194













    • What about danger to the preparer? Could a string break and lash the preparer?

      – Michael Curtis
      6 hours ago



















    • What about danger to the preparer? Could a string break and lash the preparer?

      – Michael Curtis
      6 hours ago

















    What about danger to the preparer? Could a string break and lash the preparer?

    – Michael Curtis
    6 hours ago





    What about danger to the preparer? Could a string break and lash the preparer?

    – Michael Curtis
    6 hours ago











    3














    Yes, you could potentially damage the piano. The likelihood of you damaging the piano depends on the specifics of the preparation. Even if the actual likelihood of damage is low, you must also consider the piano owner's perception of the likelihood of damage. If the piano is not yours, always ask the owner for permission before preparing. If you're at an academic institution, they might have a piano designated for this purpose, so talk to someone in the department.



    It's not just a matter of what you're putting on the string; how you do it is just as important. For example, in your photo showing bolts between the strings, notice how they are held quite tightly by the stings? You can tell because they are actually displacing the strings. If this is what you want to do, don't screw the bolts in or use force to push them in! The correct way to do this is to use a wedge to spread the strings first, then insert the bolt, then remove the wedge. I think the common sense thing to do would be to have the strings resting in the groove between threads, so select your materials accordingly.



    If you (or the piano's owner) is worried about damage, there might be a less risky alternative to achieve the same or similar effect. Focus on the sound you want and be creative.






    share|improve this answer




























      3














      Yes, you could potentially damage the piano. The likelihood of you damaging the piano depends on the specifics of the preparation. Even if the actual likelihood of damage is low, you must also consider the piano owner's perception of the likelihood of damage. If the piano is not yours, always ask the owner for permission before preparing. If you're at an academic institution, they might have a piano designated for this purpose, so talk to someone in the department.



      It's not just a matter of what you're putting on the string; how you do it is just as important. For example, in your photo showing bolts between the strings, notice how they are held quite tightly by the stings? You can tell because they are actually displacing the strings. If this is what you want to do, don't screw the bolts in or use force to push them in! The correct way to do this is to use a wedge to spread the strings first, then insert the bolt, then remove the wedge. I think the common sense thing to do would be to have the strings resting in the groove between threads, so select your materials accordingly.



      If you (or the piano's owner) is worried about damage, there might be a less risky alternative to achieve the same or similar effect. Focus on the sound you want and be creative.






      share|improve this answer


























        3












        3








        3







        Yes, you could potentially damage the piano. The likelihood of you damaging the piano depends on the specifics of the preparation. Even if the actual likelihood of damage is low, you must also consider the piano owner's perception of the likelihood of damage. If the piano is not yours, always ask the owner for permission before preparing. If you're at an academic institution, they might have a piano designated for this purpose, so talk to someone in the department.



        It's not just a matter of what you're putting on the string; how you do it is just as important. For example, in your photo showing bolts between the strings, notice how they are held quite tightly by the stings? You can tell because they are actually displacing the strings. If this is what you want to do, don't screw the bolts in or use force to push them in! The correct way to do this is to use a wedge to spread the strings first, then insert the bolt, then remove the wedge. I think the common sense thing to do would be to have the strings resting in the groove between threads, so select your materials accordingly.



        If you (or the piano's owner) is worried about damage, there might be a less risky alternative to achieve the same or similar effect. Focus on the sound you want and be creative.






        share|improve this answer













        Yes, you could potentially damage the piano. The likelihood of you damaging the piano depends on the specifics of the preparation. Even if the actual likelihood of damage is low, you must also consider the piano owner's perception of the likelihood of damage. If the piano is not yours, always ask the owner for permission before preparing. If you're at an academic institution, they might have a piano designated for this purpose, so talk to someone in the department.



        It's not just a matter of what you're putting on the string; how you do it is just as important. For example, in your photo showing bolts between the strings, notice how they are held quite tightly by the stings? You can tell because they are actually displacing the strings. If this is what you want to do, don't screw the bolts in or use force to push them in! The correct way to do this is to use a wedge to spread the strings first, then insert the bolt, then remove the wedge. I think the common sense thing to do would be to have the strings resting in the groove between threads, so select your materials accordingly.



        If you (or the piano's owner) is worried about damage, there might be a less risky alternative to achieve the same or similar effect. Focus on the sound you want and be creative.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 3 hours ago









        ibonyunibonyun

        34114




        34114






























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