What to do with someone that cheated their way though university and a PhD program? Announcing...
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What to do with someone that cheated their way though university and a PhD program?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
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A person I know cheated through most of their science classes while an undergrad. He literally had someone else take the exams for him, write his reports, and do most of his homework. He then took his stellar gpa and not so stellar GRE score and got admitted to a not so great PhD program. His new girlfriend at grad school wrote a lot of his papers. He ingratiated himself with the head of the department - he is a schmooze king. By doing physical work that very few of the other grad students would do he gained favor - cutting open mice heads and placing electrodes in them for whatever experiment his professor needed for his research. His doctoral thesis was weak and the defense round wasn't difficult. He was awarded his PhD. Mind you, he still can't explain to me nearly anything about basic chemistry, organic chemistry or biochemistry concepts. I'm talking like sn1, sn2, benzene rings, buffers, etc...
He now has a job with a pharmaceutical company doing anything but real science. He's basically a pharmaceutical rep out selling drugs to various physicians in a territory.
Do I tell his employer? Do I tell the university? Do I let it go? I have no way to prove anything. I'm sure none of those guys that took his tests for him will come forward and tell the truth. He has gotten away with fraud.
ethics
New contributor
Jeffery Thomas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
|
show 1 more comment
A person I know cheated through most of their science classes while an undergrad. He literally had someone else take the exams for him, write his reports, and do most of his homework. He then took his stellar gpa and not so stellar GRE score and got admitted to a not so great PhD program. His new girlfriend at grad school wrote a lot of his papers. He ingratiated himself with the head of the department - he is a schmooze king. By doing physical work that very few of the other grad students would do he gained favor - cutting open mice heads and placing electrodes in them for whatever experiment his professor needed for his research. His doctoral thesis was weak and the defense round wasn't difficult. He was awarded his PhD. Mind you, he still can't explain to me nearly anything about basic chemistry, organic chemistry or biochemistry concepts. I'm talking like sn1, sn2, benzene rings, buffers, etc...
He now has a job with a pharmaceutical company doing anything but real science. He's basically a pharmaceutical rep out selling drugs to various physicians in a territory.
Do I tell his employer? Do I tell the university? Do I let it go? I have no way to prove anything. I'm sure none of those guys that took his tests for him will come forward and tell the truth. He has gotten away with fraud.
ethics
New contributor
Jeffery Thomas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
8
A pharmaceutical rep being a giant scumbag? What a surprise
– Azor Ahai
2 hours ago
3
Get over it! Nothing to do with you, too many scumbags in life to chase them all. Do good work and people will notice. Everyone notices schmoozers in the end and they don't get to do fun work.
– FChm
2 hours ago
@FChm, I know you're right. It just gets to me. I hate it when cheaters win.
– Jeffery Thomas
2 hours ago
3
It depends what you define as winning, set your own life goals and metrics for happiness and let everyone else do their own thing. Personally, working as a pharmaceutical rep sounds like hell to me. But someone who puts financial gain at the top of their life agenda may like it.
– FChm
2 hours ago
1
Given you umbrage at his getting a degree, would you insist that the person be penniless and homeless? Seems to me they took a job that fits their skill set and is executing well, in spite of having a PhD.
– Jon Custer
2 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
A person I know cheated through most of their science classes while an undergrad. He literally had someone else take the exams for him, write his reports, and do most of his homework. He then took his stellar gpa and not so stellar GRE score and got admitted to a not so great PhD program. His new girlfriend at grad school wrote a lot of his papers. He ingratiated himself with the head of the department - he is a schmooze king. By doing physical work that very few of the other grad students would do he gained favor - cutting open mice heads and placing electrodes in them for whatever experiment his professor needed for his research. His doctoral thesis was weak and the defense round wasn't difficult. He was awarded his PhD. Mind you, he still can't explain to me nearly anything about basic chemistry, organic chemistry or biochemistry concepts. I'm talking like sn1, sn2, benzene rings, buffers, etc...
He now has a job with a pharmaceutical company doing anything but real science. He's basically a pharmaceutical rep out selling drugs to various physicians in a territory.
Do I tell his employer? Do I tell the university? Do I let it go? I have no way to prove anything. I'm sure none of those guys that took his tests for him will come forward and tell the truth. He has gotten away with fraud.
ethics
New contributor
Jeffery Thomas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
A person I know cheated through most of their science classes while an undergrad. He literally had someone else take the exams for him, write his reports, and do most of his homework. He then took his stellar gpa and not so stellar GRE score and got admitted to a not so great PhD program. His new girlfriend at grad school wrote a lot of his papers. He ingratiated himself with the head of the department - he is a schmooze king. By doing physical work that very few of the other grad students would do he gained favor - cutting open mice heads and placing electrodes in them for whatever experiment his professor needed for his research. His doctoral thesis was weak and the defense round wasn't difficult. He was awarded his PhD. Mind you, he still can't explain to me nearly anything about basic chemistry, organic chemistry or biochemistry concepts. I'm talking like sn1, sn2, benzene rings, buffers, etc...
He now has a job with a pharmaceutical company doing anything but real science. He's basically a pharmaceutical rep out selling drugs to various physicians in a territory.
Do I tell his employer? Do I tell the university? Do I let it go? I have no way to prove anything. I'm sure none of those guys that took his tests for him will come forward and tell the truth. He has gotten away with fraud.
ethics
ethics
New contributor
Jeffery Thomas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Jeffery Thomas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 2 hours ago
Jeffery Thomas
New contributor
Jeffery Thomas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 3 hours ago
Jeffery ThomasJeffery Thomas
1213
1213
New contributor
Jeffery Thomas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Jeffery Thomas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Jeffery Thomas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
8
A pharmaceutical rep being a giant scumbag? What a surprise
– Azor Ahai
2 hours ago
3
Get over it! Nothing to do with you, too many scumbags in life to chase them all. Do good work and people will notice. Everyone notices schmoozers in the end and they don't get to do fun work.
– FChm
2 hours ago
@FChm, I know you're right. It just gets to me. I hate it when cheaters win.
– Jeffery Thomas
2 hours ago
3
It depends what you define as winning, set your own life goals and metrics for happiness and let everyone else do their own thing. Personally, working as a pharmaceutical rep sounds like hell to me. But someone who puts financial gain at the top of their life agenda may like it.
– FChm
2 hours ago
1
Given you umbrage at his getting a degree, would you insist that the person be penniless and homeless? Seems to me they took a job that fits their skill set and is executing well, in spite of having a PhD.
– Jon Custer
2 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
8
A pharmaceutical rep being a giant scumbag? What a surprise
– Azor Ahai
2 hours ago
3
Get over it! Nothing to do with you, too many scumbags in life to chase them all. Do good work and people will notice. Everyone notices schmoozers in the end and they don't get to do fun work.
– FChm
2 hours ago
@FChm, I know you're right. It just gets to me. I hate it when cheaters win.
– Jeffery Thomas
2 hours ago
3
It depends what you define as winning, set your own life goals and metrics for happiness and let everyone else do their own thing. Personally, working as a pharmaceutical rep sounds like hell to me. But someone who puts financial gain at the top of their life agenda may like it.
– FChm
2 hours ago
1
Given you umbrage at his getting a degree, would you insist that the person be penniless and homeless? Seems to me they took a job that fits their skill set and is executing well, in spite of having a PhD.
– Jon Custer
2 hours ago
8
8
A pharmaceutical rep being a giant scumbag? What a surprise
– Azor Ahai
2 hours ago
A pharmaceutical rep being a giant scumbag? What a surprise
– Azor Ahai
2 hours ago
3
3
Get over it! Nothing to do with you, too many scumbags in life to chase them all. Do good work and people will notice. Everyone notices schmoozers in the end and they don't get to do fun work.
– FChm
2 hours ago
Get over it! Nothing to do with you, too many scumbags in life to chase them all. Do good work and people will notice. Everyone notices schmoozers in the end and they don't get to do fun work.
– FChm
2 hours ago
@FChm, I know you're right. It just gets to me. I hate it when cheaters win.
– Jeffery Thomas
2 hours ago
@FChm, I know you're right. It just gets to me. I hate it when cheaters win.
– Jeffery Thomas
2 hours ago
3
3
It depends what you define as winning, set your own life goals and metrics for happiness and let everyone else do their own thing. Personally, working as a pharmaceutical rep sounds like hell to me. But someone who puts financial gain at the top of their life agenda may like it.
– FChm
2 hours ago
It depends what you define as winning, set your own life goals and metrics for happiness and let everyone else do their own thing. Personally, working as a pharmaceutical rep sounds like hell to me. But someone who puts financial gain at the top of their life agenda may like it.
– FChm
2 hours ago
1
1
Given you umbrage at his getting a degree, would you insist that the person be penniless and homeless? Seems to me they took a job that fits their skill set and is executing well, in spite of having a PhD.
– Jon Custer
2 hours ago
Given you umbrage at his getting a degree, would you insist that the person be penniless and homeless? Seems to me they took a job that fits their skill set and is executing well, in spite of having a PhD.
– Jon Custer
2 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
He literally had someone else take the exams for him
If you wanted to speak out, that was really the right time, not so many years later when damage is done and every accusation is virtually unprovable.
His doctoral thesis was weak and the defense round wasn't difficult.
There are many weak PhD theses around, and it's up to the universities and to the defense committees to decide which level of weakness is acceptable before rejecting a candidate (gosh, if we were to object to any "weak" degree...).
Do I tell his employer? Do I tell the university? Do I let it go?
You let it go because, as you said, you've nothing to prove your accusations (and the university would have no interest in undertaking an investigation after such a long time without any evidence to start with). And he is now in industry, and it's up to his employer to decide whether to promote or demote him according to his work performance and to decide whether the PhD title is just a vacuous document in his hands.
Different is the case where, for instance, you can prove that a student cheated by plagiarising other works. Here, there is evidence that can be used to revoke a degree, as it happened in some cases.
That's just it. He is schmoozing his way up the ladder. He just got promoted to a senior level position. We don't work together so it's not like that's the angle I'm taking. I'm related to this person. I thought for sure he would have been found out by now but he keeps moving around enough that no one figures it out.
– Jeffery Thomas
2 hours ago
5
@JefferyThomas Time to stop being jelly and focusing on him and start focusing on you. Schmoozing one's way up the ladder has been standard business procedure since the beginning of corporate ladders. Socializing is a legitimate skill that has legitimate uses, including getting yourself better jobs. Unless you have something actionable and provable right now, you've missed the train on holding him to account on your allegations. That's your failure, not his, and what his problems and failures are are not your problem or responsibility.
– zibadawa timmy
2 hours ago
add a comment |
You should stop beating the horse, because it is dead now. You had a chance but you lost it when you were in school and when something could have done about it. Right now, I believe you don't have any option other than letting it go. I can imagine your frustation in seeing him moving up the ladder (probably higher than you). If you didn't say anything when it actually could have changed anything, you should make peace with it now.
Even if you tell his employer now, what proof do you have to prove your allegation? University probably won't have any interest in pursuing this now. Honestly speaking, I sense jealousy in your post that he is doing good after all this. What you call "schmooze king", is actually a desirable skill in industry. More connections you can make, better are your chances to move up the ladder faster. So I would say, stop being obsessive with his success (with fraud or otherwise), and focus on your career.
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
He literally had someone else take the exams for him
If you wanted to speak out, that was really the right time, not so many years later when damage is done and every accusation is virtually unprovable.
His doctoral thesis was weak and the defense round wasn't difficult.
There are many weak PhD theses around, and it's up to the universities and to the defense committees to decide which level of weakness is acceptable before rejecting a candidate (gosh, if we were to object to any "weak" degree...).
Do I tell his employer? Do I tell the university? Do I let it go?
You let it go because, as you said, you've nothing to prove your accusations (and the university would have no interest in undertaking an investigation after such a long time without any evidence to start with). And he is now in industry, and it's up to his employer to decide whether to promote or demote him according to his work performance and to decide whether the PhD title is just a vacuous document in his hands.
Different is the case where, for instance, you can prove that a student cheated by plagiarising other works. Here, there is evidence that can be used to revoke a degree, as it happened in some cases.
That's just it. He is schmoozing his way up the ladder. He just got promoted to a senior level position. We don't work together so it's not like that's the angle I'm taking. I'm related to this person. I thought for sure he would have been found out by now but he keeps moving around enough that no one figures it out.
– Jeffery Thomas
2 hours ago
5
@JefferyThomas Time to stop being jelly and focusing on him and start focusing on you. Schmoozing one's way up the ladder has been standard business procedure since the beginning of corporate ladders. Socializing is a legitimate skill that has legitimate uses, including getting yourself better jobs. Unless you have something actionable and provable right now, you've missed the train on holding him to account on your allegations. That's your failure, not his, and what his problems and failures are are not your problem or responsibility.
– zibadawa timmy
2 hours ago
add a comment |
He literally had someone else take the exams for him
If you wanted to speak out, that was really the right time, not so many years later when damage is done and every accusation is virtually unprovable.
His doctoral thesis was weak and the defense round wasn't difficult.
There are many weak PhD theses around, and it's up to the universities and to the defense committees to decide which level of weakness is acceptable before rejecting a candidate (gosh, if we were to object to any "weak" degree...).
Do I tell his employer? Do I tell the university? Do I let it go?
You let it go because, as you said, you've nothing to prove your accusations (and the university would have no interest in undertaking an investigation after such a long time without any evidence to start with). And he is now in industry, and it's up to his employer to decide whether to promote or demote him according to his work performance and to decide whether the PhD title is just a vacuous document in his hands.
Different is the case where, for instance, you can prove that a student cheated by plagiarising other works. Here, there is evidence that can be used to revoke a degree, as it happened in some cases.
That's just it. He is schmoozing his way up the ladder. He just got promoted to a senior level position. We don't work together so it's not like that's the angle I'm taking. I'm related to this person. I thought for sure he would have been found out by now but he keeps moving around enough that no one figures it out.
– Jeffery Thomas
2 hours ago
5
@JefferyThomas Time to stop being jelly and focusing on him and start focusing on you. Schmoozing one's way up the ladder has been standard business procedure since the beginning of corporate ladders. Socializing is a legitimate skill that has legitimate uses, including getting yourself better jobs. Unless you have something actionable and provable right now, you've missed the train on holding him to account on your allegations. That's your failure, not his, and what his problems and failures are are not your problem or responsibility.
– zibadawa timmy
2 hours ago
add a comment |
He literally had someone else take the exams for him
If you wanted to speak out, that was really the right time, not so many years later when damage is done and every accusation is virtually unprovable.
His doctoral thesis was weak and the defense round wasn't difficult.
There are many weak PhD theses around, and it's up to the universities and to the defense committees to decide which level of weakness is acceptable before rejecting a candidate (gosh, if we were to object to any "weak" degree...).
Do I tell his employer? Do I tell the university? Do I let it go?
You let it go because, as you said, you've nothing to prove your accusations (and the university would have no interest in undertaking an investigation after such a long time without any evidence to start with). And he is now in industry, and it's up to his employer to decide whether to promote or demote him according to his work performance and to decide whether the PhD title is just a vacuous document in his hands.
Different is the case where, for instance, you can prove that a student cheated by plagiarising other works. Here, there is evidence that can be used to revoke a degree, as it happened in some cases.
He literally had someone else take the exams for him
If you wanted to speak out, that was really the right time, not so many years later when damage is done and every accusation is virtually unprovable.
His doctoral thesis was weak and the defense round wasn't difficult.
There are many weak PhD theses around, and it's up to the universities and to the defense committees to decide which level of weakness is acceptable before rejecting a candidate (gosh, if we were to object to any "weak" degree...).
Do I tell his employer? Do I tell the university? Do I let it go?
You let it go because, as you said, you've nothing to prove your accusations (and the university would have no interest in undertaking an investigation after such a long time without any evidence to start with). And he is now in industry, and it's up to his employer to decide whether to promote or demote him according to his work performance and to decide whether the PhD title is just a vacuous document in his hands.
Different is the case where, for instance, you can prove that a student cheated by plagiarising other works. Here, there is evidence that can be used to revoke a degree, as it happened in some cases.
edited 2 hours ago
answered 2 hours ago
Massimo OrtolanoMassimo Ortolano
40k12121150
40k12121150
That's just it. He is schmoozing his way up the ladder. He just got promoted to a senior level position. We don't work together so it's not like that's the angle I'm taking. I'm related to this person. I thought for sure he would have been found out by now but he keeps moving around enough that no one figures it out.
– Jeffery Thomas
2 hours ago
5
@JefferyThomas Time to stop being jelly and focusing on him and start focusing on you. Schmoozing one's way up the ladder has been standard business procedure since the beginning of corporate ladders. Socializing is a legitimate skill that has legitimate uses, including getting yourself better jobs. Unless you have something actionable and provable right now, you've missed the train on holding him to account on your allegations. That's your failure, not his, and what his problems and failures are are not your problem or responsibility.
– zibadawa timmy
2 hours ago
add a comment |
That's just it. He is schmoozing his way up the ladder. He just got promoted to a senior level position. We don't work together so it's not like that's the angle I'm taking. I'm related to this person. I thought for sure he would have been found out by now but he keeps moving around enough that no one figures it out.
– Jeffery Thomas
2 hours ago
5
@JefferyThomas Time to stop being jelly and focusing on him and start focusing on you. Schmoozing one's way up the ladder has been standard business procedure since the beginning of corporate ladders. Socializing is a legitimate skill that has legitimate uses, including getting yourself better jobs. Unless you have something actionable and provable right now, you've missed the train on holding him to account on your allegations. That's your failure, not his, and what his problems and failures are are not your problem or responsibility.
– zibadawa timmy
2 hours ago
That's just it. He is schmoozing his way up the ladder. He just got promoted to a senior level position. We don't work together so it's not like that's the angle I'm taking. I'm related to this person. I thought for sure he would have been found out by now but he keeps moving around enough that no one figures it out.
– Jeffery Thomas
2 hours ago
That's just it. He is schmoozing his way up the ladder. He just got promoted to a senior level position. We don't work together so it's not like that's the angle I'm taking. I'm related to this person. I thought for sure he would have been found out by now but he keeps moving around enough that no one figures it out.
– Jeffery Thomas
2 hours ago
5
5
@JefferyThomas Time to stop being jelly and focusing on him and start focusing on you. Schmoozing one's way up the ladder has been standard business procedure since the beginning of corporate ladders. Socializing is a legitimate skill that has legitimate uses, including getting yourself better jobs. Unless you have something actionable and provable right now, you've missed the train on holding him to account on your allegations. That's your failure, not his, and what his problems and failures are are not your problem or responsibility.
– zibadawa timmy
2 hours ago
@JefferyThomas Time to stop being jelly and focusing on him and start focusing on you. Schmoozing one's way up the ladder has been standard business procedure since the beginning of corporate ladders. Socializing is a legitimate skill that has legitimate uses, including getting yourself better jobs. Unless you have something actionable and provable right now, you've missed the train on holding him to account on your allegations. That's your failure, not his, and what his problems and failures are are not your problem or responsibility.
– zibadawa timmy
2 hours ago
add a comment |
You should stop beating the horse, because it is dead now. You had a chance but you lost it when you were in school and when something could have done about it. Right now, I believe you don't have any option other than letting it go. I can imagine your frustation in seeing him moving up the ladder (probably higher than you). If you didn't say anything when it actually could have changed anything, you should make peace with it now.
Even if you tell his employer now, what proof do you have to prove your allegation? University probably won't have any interest in pursuing this now. Honestly speaking, I sense jealousy in your post that he is doing good after all this. What you call "schmooze king", is actually a desirable skill in industry. More connections you can make, better are your chances to move up the ladder faster. So I would say, stop being obsessive with his success (with fraud or otherwise), and focus on your career.
add a comment |
You should stop beating the horse, because it is dead now. You had a chance but you lost it when you were in school and when something could have done about it. Right now, I believe you don't have any option other than letting it go. I can imagine your frustation in seeing him moving up the ladder (probably higher than you). If you didn't say anything when it actually could have changed anything, you should make peace with it now.
Even if you tell his employer now, what proof do you have to prove your allegation? University probably won't have any interest in pursuing this now. Honestly speaking, I sense jealousy in your post that he is doing good after all this. What you call "schmooze king", is actually a desirable skill in industry. More connections you can make, better are your chances to move up the ladder faster. So I would say, stop being obsessive with his success (with fraud or otherwise), and focus on your career.
add a comment |
You should stop beating the horse, because it is dead now. You had a chance but you lost it when you were in school and when something could have done about it. Right now, I believe you don't have any option other than letting it go. I can imagine your frustation in seeing him moving up the ladder (probably higher than you). If you didn't say anything when it actually could have changed anything, you should make peace with it now.
Even if you tell his employer now, what proof do you have to prove your allegation? University probably won't have any interest in pursuing this now. Honestly speaking, I sense jealousy in your post that he is doing good after all this. What you call "schmooze king", is actually a desirable skill in industry. More connections you can make, better are your chances to move up the ladder faster. So I would say, stop being obsessive with his success (with fraud or otherwise), and focus on your career.
You should stop beating the horse, because it is dead now. You had a chance but you lost it when you were in school and when something could have done about it. Right now, I believe you don't have any option other than letting it go. I can imagine your frustation in seeing him moving up the ladder (probably higher than you). If you didn't say anything when it actually could have changed anything, you should make peace with it now.
Even if you tell his employer now, what proof do you have to prove your allegation? University probably won't have any interest in pursuing this now. Honestly speaking, I sense jealousy in your post that he is doing good after all this. What you call "schmooze king", is actually a desirable skill in industry. More connections you can make, better are your chances to move up the ladder faster. So I would say, stop being obsessive with his success (with fraud or otherwise), and focus on your career.
answered 1 hour ago
nsinghsnsinghs
1,106312
1,106312
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Jeffery Thomas is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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Jeffery Thomas is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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8
A pharmaceutical rep being a giant scumbag? What a surprise
– Azor Ahai
2 hours ago
3
Get over it! Nothing to do with you, too many scumbags in life to chase them all. Do good work and people will notice. Everyone notices schmoozers in the end and they don't get to do fun work.
– FChm
2 hours ago
@FChm, I know you're right. It just gets to me. I hate it when cheaters win.
– Jeffery Thomas
2 hours ago
3
It depends what you define as winning, set your own life goals and metrics for happiness and let everyone else do their own thing. Personally, working as a pharmaceutical rep sounds like hell to me. But someone who puts financial gain at the top of their life agenda may like it.
– FChm
2 hours ago
1
Given you umbrage at his getting a degree, would you insist that the person be penniless and homeless? Seems to me they took a job that fits their skill set and is executing well, in spite of having a PhD.
– Jon Custer
2 hours ago