Is Dumbledore using Legilimency when he gives Harry a “piercing look”?How did Dumbledore know that...
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Is Dumbledore using Legilimency when he gives Harry a “piercing look”?
How did Dumbledore know that Neville stood up to his friends?Why did Dumbledore dismiss not saying Voldemorts name to Harry?When did Dumbledore destroy the horcrux ring?Did Dumbledore approve of Harry using the Marauder's Map?What do people who are using a pensieve look like?How did Dumbledore know that Harry found the Mirror of Erised?Why didn't Dumbledore leave Harry a big pile of basilisk fangs?How many times has Dumbledore outright lied to Harry (or anyone)?Prisoner of Azkaban : Did Dumbledore sense that future Harry was around?Why didn't Umbridge use legilimency against Harry?Why did Harry resent Dumbledore at the beginning of Deathly Hallows?
At many points in the story, when Dumbledore asks Harry something, he gives him a piercing look. It makes me wonder if that is Dumbledore using Legilemency against him. Is he?
harry-potter albus-dumbledore
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At many points in the story, when Dumbledore asks Harry something, he gives him a piercing look. It makes me wonder if that is Dumbledore using Legilemency against him. Is he?
harry-potter albus-dumbledore
16
I can't remember anything in the books to suggest that. I thought it was the kind of "piercing look" I used to give my students when I wasn't sure they were telling the truth.
– Matt Gutting
Jul 29 '14 at 12:27
1
@MattGutting Harry admits that Dunbledore sees through him in a way even Mad eye's magical eye couldn't. Just my thought
– Hashir Omer
Jul 29 '14 at 12:29
4
@HashirOmer - yes. I felt the same way with some of my Muggle teachers.
– DVK-on-Ahch-To
Jul 30 '14 at 18:00
add a comment |
At many points in the story, when Dumbledore asks Harry something, he gives him a piercing look. It makes me wonder if that is Dumbledore using Legilemency against him. Is he?
harry-potter albus-dumbledore
At many points in the story, when Dumbledore asks Harry something, he gives him a piercing look. It makes me wonder if that is Dumbledore using Legilemency against him. Is he?
harry-potter albus-dumbledore
harry-potter albus-dumbledore
edited Jul 29 '14 at 18:19
SevenSidedDie
16710
16710
asked Jul 29 '14 at 12:23
Hashir OmerHashir Omer
82211323
82211323
16
I can't remember anything in the books to suggest that. I thought it was the kind of "piercing look" I used to give my students when I wasn't sure they were telling the truth.
– Matt Gutting
Jul 29 '14 at 12:27
1
@MattGutting Harry admits that Dunbledore sees through him in a way even Mad eye's magical eye couldn't. Just my thought
– Hashir Omer
Jul 29 '14 at 12:29
4
@HashirOmer - yes. I felt the same way with some of my Muggle teachers.
– DVK-on-Ahch-To
Jul 30 '14 at 18:00
add a comment |
16
I can't remember anything in the books to suggest that. I thought it was the kind of "piercing look" I used to give my students when I wasn't sure they were telling the truth.
– Matt Gutting
Jul 29 '14 at 12:27
1
@MattGutting Harry admits that Dunbledore sees through him in a way even Mad eye's magical eye couldn't. Just my thought
– Hashir Omer
Jul 29 '14 at 12:29
4
@HashirOmer - yes. I felt the same way with some of my Muggle teachers.
– DVK-on-Ahch-To
Jul 30 '14 at 18:00
16
16
I can't remember anything in the books to suggest that. I thought it was the kind of "piercing look" I used to give my students when I wasn't sure they were telling the truth.
– Matt Gutting
Jul 29 '14 at 12:27
I can't remember anything in the books to suggest that. I thought it was the kind of "piercing look" I used to give my students when I wasn't sure they were telling the truth.
– Matt Gutting
Jul 29 '14 at 12:27
1
1
@MattGutting Harry admits that Dunbledore sees through him in a way even Mad eye's magical eye couldn't. Just my thought
– Hashir Omer
Jul 29 '14 at 12:29
@MattGutting Harry admits that Dunbledore sees through him in a way even Mad eye's magical eye couldn't. Just my thought
– Hashir Omer
Jul 29 '14 at 12:29
4
4
@HashirOmer - yes. I felt the same way with some of my Muggle teachers.
– DVK-on-Ahch-To
Jul 30 '14 at 18:00
@HashirOmer - yes. I felt the same way with some of my Muggle teachers.
– DVK-on-Ahch-To
Jul 30 '14 at 18:00
add a comment |
7 Answers
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He certainly seems to find some information when giving Harry these 'piercing looks', but he still doesn't know about Harry hearing the basilisk in the Chamber of Secrets, so I would say no; he's just extremely smart, so he makes some educated guesses as to what Harry is thinking.
I would also say that Dumbledore would feel it is rude to intrude on Harry's thoughts with legilimency, which is likely the reason he gives Harry plenty of opportunity to tell him his thoughts of his own accord. Harry's free will would factor greatly into Dumbledore's decisions.
2
Good point about the basilisk
– Hashir Omer
Jul 29 '14 at 12:56
8
Dumbledore's piercing looks typically are used when hes determining whether hes being lied to or not, Or if something is being withheld from him. legilimency is a very invasive spell as we find out when snape uses it against Harry so we know for sure hes not using it.
– Himarm
Jul 29 '14 at 13:22
@Himarm:Or maybe you just experience it in another way when you KNOW that someone reads your mind?!
– teair
Jul 29 '14 at 13:28
I seriously doubt that Dumbledore would use such a spell on Harry, he trusts people a little too fully remember, so I don't think he would have ever used it on too many people, certainly not people so close to him
– ZenLogic
Jul 29 '14 at 13:30
1
I dont think you could say Dumbledore trusts people to fully, he trusts people enough where it counts to get the job done. Other then his betrayal by grendelwald you see he never over extends his trust. Also Dumbledore will do practically anything to achieve his goals, and if he felt he needed to force Harry to talk... he would force Harry to talk.
– Himarm
Jul 29 '14 at 15:22
|
show 4 more comments
I disagree. I absolutely think he was using legilimency. There’s a lot of evidence to support this, but the best example is when he asks Harry, notably in Chamber of Secrets, whether there is something he wishes to tell him. The reason Harry can tell when Snape is reading his mind is because Snape is using magic to force him to think of those images and thoughts. Dumbledore is much more subtle, as well as an exceptionally gifted wizard, so he simply asks Harry, who is very honest and open by nature (which is why he fails to learn occlumency with many lessons while Draco learns it almost immediately when taught by Narcissa) automatically thinks of the things he would tell Dumbledore if he weren’t afraid to, such as hearing the voice of the Basilisk. It also explains Dumbledore’s general tendency to know a lot more than he logically ought to. I originally assumed he was just making good guesses, and he jokes in one book that his guesses (not the word that’s used but I’m blanking right now) are usually correct. (Maybe the word is hunch. I digress) but I’ve also come to realize that when Dumbledore is amused with himself it’s on account of a private joke. Again I wish I had a quote for this but I don’t feel like digging for one.
3
Also, I meant to mention, the word Legilimens implies not specifically mind-reading, but knowing the truth. I suspect more complicated or “deep” Legilimency involves actually seeing memories and more subtle Legilimency can simply sense whether a person is being truthful or not. This also explains why Snape, a gifted Legilimens, seems to know whether students, specifically Harry, (again, particularly easy to “read” so to speak) have done something they shouldn’t have, regardless of whether he has evidence.
– Mary
Dec 27 '17 at 4:27
If you need to add to your answer or change something you can click the edit button below the post or in the link to the left to touch-up your answer.
– Edlothiad
Dec 27 '17 at 4:42
add a comment |
I agree with this answer that Legilimency isn't imperceptible, that the 'victim' knows what information is being extracted and that the example with Snape and Harry proves this.
We do have one hint that Dumbledore used Legilimency on Harry, however. Since it's the only instance in canon that suggests this explicitly I thought I'd add an answer to the pile.
Boiling with anger at Snape, his desire to do something desperate and risky had increased tenfold in the last few minutes. This seemed to show on Harry's face, for Dumbledore moved away from the window, and looked more closely at Harry, a slight crease between his silver eyebrows.
"What has happened to you?"
"Nothing," lied Harry promptly.
"What has upset you?"
"I'm not upset."
"Harry, you were never a good Occlumens -"
(Half-Blood Prince, Chapter 25, The Seer Overheard).
Dumbledore's behaviour here is consistent with the use of Legilimency. He maintains eye contact and focuses intently on Harry. Ultimately, he's able to work out that Harry's lying to him.
Arguably, Dumbledore wouldn't have needed to use Legilimency to work out that Harry was lying to him. Harry was not in control of his emotions and was pretty easy to read once Dumbledore started observing him closely. Moreover, Dumbledore doesn't find out exactly what Harry is angry about, which he probably would have done if he were using Legilimency.
On balance, I don't think that Dumbledore was using Legilimency here. Nevertheless, Dumbledore brings up Harry not being good at Occlumency, which could indicate that he had used it. I don't think he did but it's possible to make an argument that he did based on Dumbledore's wording.
add a comment |
No.
Harry would know if legilimency was being used on him, as when Snape used legilimency on Harry (all emphasis added):
“Liar,” said Snape. Harry’s throat went dry. He knew what Snape was going to do and he had never been able to prevent it. …
The bathroom seemed to shimmer before his eyes; he struggled to block out all thought, but try as he might, the Half-Blood Prince's copy of Advanced Potion-Making swam hazily to the forefront of his mind.
And then he was staring at Snape again, in the midst of this wrecked, soaked bathroom. He stared into Snape's black eyes, hoping against hope that Snape had not seen what he feared, but –
Here, what Snape was trying to see "swam [...] to the forefront of his [Harry's] mind", so Harry was an observer as well as Snape.
This did not happen when Dumbledore gave Harry a piercing look; I guess he was just looking sharply at Harry.
Remember, Dumbledore was extremely smart and had a lot of information that Harry didn't. Chances are that he could guess anything he was a bit uncertain about simply by observing Harry closely and his reactions to what Dumbledore was saying.
2
That's far from conclusive; Dumbledore could be better than Snape and be able to perform it more subtly, or Dumbledore could be not going as deep (detecting just whether Harry was lying, rather than looking for specific details), etc.
– Acccumulation
Jan 4 '18 at 17:08
add a comment |
I doubt it.
If Dumbledore wouldn't use Legilimency on Slughorn to learn what he had told Riddle all those years ago, instead relying on Slughorn being honest, why would he read Harry's mind instead of just asking him? What ZenLogic said about Harry's free will is extremely important.
You have to remember that Dumbledore had taught literally hundreds of students, so Dumbledore's "piercing look" would have been something he had used for decades. I believe it is simply reading the non-verbal cues of a child that is not yet in control of their emotions.
add a comment |
YES.
Then how did Dumbledore and Snape know Harry was there under the invisibility cloak? Dumbledore saw him and knew he was there in Hagrid's house. How could he not be like Queenie? Throughout all movies he suggests he knows what people are thinking before they say it, esp. Obvious with Leta Lestrange.
New contributor
add a comment |
My opinion is that if Albus Dumbledore as headmaster made it forbidden to use veritaserum (truth potion), Order of the Phoenix, then why would he allow the use of legilimency? (of course only when it was really needed, in Half Blood Prince).
He trusted Harry well enough with all his secrets and more importantly, he once said that truth is a good and terrible thing.
He also said that curiosity should be treated with caution and I believe he wouldn't break his own values.
add a comment |
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7 Answers
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He certainly seems to find some information when giving Harry these 'piercing looks', but he still doesn't know about Harry hearing the basilisk in the Chamber of Secrets, so I would say no; he's just extremely smart, so he makes some educated guesses as to what Harry is thinking.
I would also say that Dumbledore would feel it is rude to intrude on Harry's thoughts with legilimency, which is likely the reason he gives Harry plenty of opportunity to tell him his thoughts of his own accord. Harry's free will would factor greatly into Dumbledore's decisions.
2
Good point about the basilisk
– Hashir Omer
Jul 29 '14 at 12:56
8
Dumbledore's piercing looks typically are used when hes determining whether hes being lied to or not, Or if something is being withheld from him. legilimency is a very invasive spell as we find out when snape uses it against Harry so we know for sure hes not using it.
– Himarm
Jul 29 '14 at 13:22
@Himarm:Or maybe you just experience it in another way when you KNOW that someone reads your mind?!
– teair
Jul 29 '14 at 13:28
I seriously doubt that Dumbledore would use such a spell on Harry, he trusts people a little too fully remember, so I don't think he would have ever used it on too many people, certainly not people so close to him
– ZenLogic
Jul 29 '14 at 13:30
1
I dont think you could say Dumbledore trusts people to fully, he trusts people enough where it counts to get the job done. Other then his betrayal by grendelwald you see he never over extends his trust. Also Dumbledore will do practically anything to achieve his goals, and if he felt he needed to force Harry to talk... he would force Harry to talk.
– Himarm
Jul 29 '14 at 15:22
|
show 4 more comments
He certainly seems to find some information when giving Harry these 'piercing looks', but he still doesn't know about Harry hearing the basilisk in the Chamber of Secrets, so I would say no; he's just extremely smart, so he makes some educated guesses as to what Harry is thinking.
I would also say that Dumbledore would feel it is rude to intrude on Harry's thoughts with legilimency, which is likely the reason he gives Harry plenty of opportunity to tell him his thoughts of his own accord. Harry's free will would factor greatly into Dumbledore's decisions.
2
Good point about the basilisk
– Hashir Omer
Jul 29 '14 at 12:56
8
Dumbledore's piercing looks typically are used when hes determining whether hes being lied to or not, Or if something is being withheld from him. legilimency is a very invasive spell as we find out when snape uses it against Harry so we know for sure hes not using it.
– Himarm
Jul 29 '14 at 13:22
@Himarm:Or maybe you just experience it in another way when you KNOW that someone reads your mind?!
– teair
Jul 29 '14 at 13:28
I seriously doubt that Dumbledore would use such a spell on Harry, he trusts people a little too fully remember, so I don't think he would have ever used it on too many people, certainly not people so close to him
– ZenLogic
Jul 29 '14 at 13:30
1
I dont think you could say Dumbledore trusts people to fully, he trusts people enough where it counts to get the job done. Other then his betrayal by grendelwald you see he never over extends his trust. Also Dumbledore will do practically anything to achieve his goals, and if he felt he needed to force Harry to talk... he would force Harry to talk.
– Himarm
Jul 29 '14 at 15:22
|
show 4 more comments
He certainly seems to find some information when giving Harry these 'piercing looks', but he still doesn't know about Harry hearing the basilisk in the Chamber of Secrets, so I would say no; he's just extremely smart, so he makes some educated guesses as to what Harry is thinking.
I would also say that Dumbledore would feel it is rude to intrude on Harry's thoughts with legilimency, which is likely the reason he gives Harry plenty of opportunity to tell him his thoughts of his own accord. Harry's free will would factor greatly into Dumbledore's decisions.
He certainly seems to find some information when giving Harry these 'piercing looks', but he still doesn't know about Harry hearing the basilisk in the Chamber of Secrets, so I would say no; he's just extremely smart, so he makes some educated guesses as to what Harry is thinking.
I would also say that Dumbledore would feel it is rude to intrude on Harry's thoughts with legilimency, which is likely the reason he gives Harry plenty of opportunity to tell him his thoughts of his own accord. Harry's free will would factor greatly into Dumbledore's decisions.
edited May 26 '16 at 19:45
Thunderforge
30.7k23145306
30.7k23145306
answered Jul 29 '14 at 12:54
ZenLogicZenLogic
3,63642032
3,63642032
2
Good point about the basilisk
– Hashir Omer
Jul 29 '14 at 12:56
8
Dumbledore's piercing looks typically are used when hes determining whether hes being lied to or not, Or if something is being withheld from him. legilimency is a very invasive spell as we find out when snape uses it against Harry so we know for sure hes not using it.
– Himarm
Jul 29 '14 at 13:22
@Himarm:Or maybe you just experience it in another way when you KNOW that someone reads your mind?!
– teair
Jul 29 '14 at 13:28
I seriously doubt that Dumbledore would use such a spell on Harry, he trusts people a little too fully remember, so I don't think he would have ever used it on too many people, certainly not people so close to him
– ZenLogic
Jul 29 '14 at 13:30
1
I dont think you could say Dumbledore trusts people to fully, he trusts people enough where it counts to get the job done. Other then his betrayal by grendelwald you see he never over extends his trust. Also Dumbledore will do practically anything to achieve his goals, and if he felt he needed to force Harry to talk... he would force Harry to talk.
– Himarm
Jul 29 '14 at 15:22
|
show 4 more comments
2
Good point about the basilisk
– Hashir Omer
Jul 29 '14 at 12:56
8
Dumbledore's piercing looks typically are used when hes determining whether hes being lied to or not, Or if something is being withheld from him. legilimency is a very invasive spell as we find out when snape uses it against Harry so we know for sure hes not using it.
– Himarm
Jul 29 '14 at 13:22
@Himarm:Or maybe you just experience it in another way when you KNOW that someone reads your mind?!
– teair
Jul 29 '14 at 13:28
I seriously doubt that Dumbledore would use such a spell on Harry, he trusts people a little too fully remember, so I don't think he would have ever used it on too many people, certainly not people so close to him
– ZenLogic
Jul 29 '14 at 13:30
1
I dont think you could say Dumbledore trusts people to fully, he trusts people enough where it counts to get the job done. Other then his betrayal by grendelwald you see he never over extends his trust. Also Dumbledore will do practically anything to achieve his goals, and if he felt he needed to force Harry to talk... he would force Harry to talk.
– Himarm
Jul 29 '14 at 15:22
2
2
Good point about the basilisk
– Hashir Omer
Jul 29 '14 at 12:56
Good point about the basilisk
– Hashir Omer
Jul 29 '14 at 12:56
8
8
Dumbledore's piercing looks typically are used when hes determining whether hes being lied to or not, Or if something is being withheld from him. legilimency is a very invasive spell as we find out when snape uses it against Harry so we know for sure hes not using it.
– Himarm
Jul 29 '14 at 13:22
Dumbledore's piercing looks typically are used when hes determining whether hes being lied to or not, Or if something is being withheld from him. legilimency is a very invasive spell as we find out when snape uses it against Harry so we know for sure hes not using it.
– Himarm
Jul 29 '14 at 13:22
@Himarm:Or maybe you just experience it in another way when you KNOW that someone reads your mind?!
– teair
Jul 29 '14 at 13:28
@Himarm:Or maybe you just experience it in another way when you KNOW that someone reads your mind?!
– teair
Jul 29 '14 at 13:28
I seriously doubt that Dumbledore would use such a spell on Harry, he trusts people a little too fully remember, so I don't think he would have ever used it on too many people, certainly not people so close to him
– ZenLogic
Jul 29 '14 at 13:30
I seriously doubt that Dumbledore would use such a spell on Harry, he trusts people a little too fully remember, so I don't think he would have ever used it on too many people, certainly not people so close to him
– ZenLogic
Jul 29 '14 at 13:30
1
1
I dont think you could say Dumbledore trusts people to fully, he trusts people enough where it counts to get the job done. Other then his betrayal by grendelwald you see he never over extends his trust. Also Dumbledore will do practically anything to achieve his goals, and if he felt he needed to force Harry to talk... he would force Harry to talk.
– Himarm
Jul 29 '14 at 15:22
I dont think you could say Dumbledore trusts people to fully, he trusts people enough where it counts to get the job done. Other then his betrayal by grendelwald you see he never over extends his trust. Also Dumbledore will do practically anything to achieve his goals, and if he felt he needed to force Harry to talk... he would force Harry to talk.
– Himarm
Jul 29 '14 at 15:22
|
show 4 more comments
I disagree. I absolutely think he was using legilimency. There’s a lot of evidence to support this, but the best example is when he asks Harry, notably in Chamber of Secrets, whether there is something he wishes to tell him. The reason Harry can tell when Snape is reading his mind is because Snape is using magic to force him to think of those images and thoughts. Dumbledore is much more subtle, as well as an exceptionally gifted wizard, so he simply asks Harry, who is very honest and open by nature (which is why he fails to learn occlumency with many lessons while Draco learns it almost immediately when taught by Narcissa) automatically thinks of the things he would tell Dumbledore if he weren’t afraid to, such as hearing the voice of the Basilisk. It also explains Dumbledore’s general tendency to know a lot more than he logically ought to. I originally assumed he was just making good guesses, and he jokes in one book that his guesses (not the word that’s used but I’m blanking right now) are usually correct. (Maybe the word is hunch. I digress) but I’ve also come to realize that when Dumbledore is amused with himself it’s on account of a private joke. Again I wish I had a quote for this but I don’t feel like digging for one.
3
Also, I meant to mention, the word Legilimens implies not specifically mind-reading, but knowing the truth. I suspect more complicated or “deep” Legilimency involves actually seeing memories and more subtle Legilimency can simply sense whether a person is being truthful or not. This also explains why Snape, a gifted Legilimens, seems to know whether students, specifically Harry, (again, particularly easy to “read” so to speak) have done something they shouldn’t have, regardless of whether he has evidence.
– Mary
Dec 27 '17 at 4:27
If you need to add to your answer or change something you can click the edit button below the post or in the link to the left to touch-up your answer.
– Edlothiad
Dec 27 '17 at 4:42
add a comment |
I disagree. I absolutely think he was using legilimency. There’s a lot of evidence to support this, but the best example is when he asks Harry, notably in Chamber of Secrets, whether there is something he wishes to tell him. The reason Harry can tell when Snape is reading his mind is because Snape is using magic to force him to think of those images and thoughts. Dumbledore is much more subtle, as well as an exceptionally gifted wizard, so he simply asks Harry, who is very honest and open by nature (which is why he fails to learn occlumency with many lessons while Draco learns it almost immediately when taught by Narcissa) automatically thinks of the things he would tell Dumbledore if he weren’t afraid to, such as hearing the voice of the Basilisk. It also explains Dumbledore’s general tendency to know a lot more than he logically ought to. I originally assumed he was just making good guesses, and he jokes in one book that his guesses (not the word that’s used but I’m blanking right now) are usually correct. (Maybe the word is hunch. I digress) but I’ve also come to realize that when Dumbledore is amused with himself it’s on account of a private joke. Again I wish I had a quote for this but I don’t feel like digging for one.
3
Also, I meant to mention, the word Legilimens implies not specifically mind-reading, but knowing the truth. I suspect more complicated or “deep” Legilimency involves actually seeing memories and more subtle Legilimency can simply sense whether a person is being truthful or not. This also explains why Snape, a gifted Legilimens, seems to know whether students, specifically Harry, (again, particularly easy to “read” so to speak) have done something they shouldn’t have, regardless of whether he has evidence.
– Mary
Dec 27 '17 at 4:27
If you need to add to your answer or change something you can click the edit button below the post or in the link to the left to touch-up your answer.
– Edlothiad
Dec 27 '17 at 4:42
add a comment |
I disagree. I absolutely think he was using legilimency. There’s a lot of evidence to support this, but the best example is when he asks Harry, notably in Chamber of Secrets, whether there is something he wishes to tell him. The reason Harry can tell when Snape is reading his mind is because Snape is using magic to force him to think of those images and thoughts. Dumbledore is much more subtle, as well as an exceptionally gifted wizard, so he simply asks Harry, who is very honest and open by nature (which is why he fails to learn occlumency with many lessons while Draco learns it almost immediately when taught by Narcissa) automatically thinks of the things he would tell Dumbledore if he weren’t afraid to, such as hearing the voice of the Basilisk. It also explains Dumbledore’s general tendency to know a lot more than he logically ought to. I originally assumed he was just making good guesses, and he jokes in one book that his guesses (not the word that’s used but I’m blanking right now) are usually correct. (Maybe the word is hunch. I digress) but I’ve also come to realize that when Dumbledore is amused with himself it’s on account of a private joke. Again I wish I had a quote for this but I don’t feel like digging for one.
I disagree. I absolutely think he was using legilimency. There’s a lot of evidence to support this, but the best example is when he asks Harry, notably in Chamber of Secrets, whether there is something he wishes to tell him. The reason Harry can tell when Snape is reading his mind is because Snape is using magic to force him to think of those images and thoughts. Dumbledore is much more subtle, as well as an exceptionally gifted wizard, so he simply asks Harry, who is very honest and open by nature (which is why he fails to learn occlumency with many lessons while Draco learns it almost immediately when taught by Narcissa) automatically thinks of the things he would tell Dumbledore if he weren’t afraid to, such as hearing the voice of the Basilisk. It also explains Dumbledore’s general tendency to know a lot more than he logically ought to. I originally assumed he was just making good guesses, and he jokes in one book that his guesses (not the word that’s used but I’m blanking right now) are usually correct. (Maybe the word is hunch. I digress) but I’ve also come to realize that when Dumbledore is amused with himself it’s on account of a private joke. Again I wish I had a quote for this but I don’t feel like digging for one.
answered Dec 27 '17 at 4:21
MaryMary
5911
5911
3
Also, I meant to mention, the word Legilimens implies not specifically mind-reading, but knowing the truth. I suspect more complicated or “deep” Legilimency involves actually seeing memories and more subtle Legilimency can simply sense whether a person is being truthful or not. This also explains why Snape, a gifted Legilimens, seems to know whether students, specifically Harry, (again, particularly easy to “read” so to speak) have done something they shouldn’t have, regardless of whether he has evidence.
– Mary
Dec 27 '17 at 4:27
If you need to add to your answer or change something you can click the edit button below the post or in the link to the left to touch-up your answer.
– Edlothiad
Dec 27 '17 at 4:42
add a comment |
3
Also, I meant to mention, the word Legilimens implies not specifically mind-reading, but knowing the truth. I suspect more complicated or “deep” Legilimency involves actually seeing memories and more subtle Legilimency can simply sense whether a person is being truthful or not. This also explains why Snape, a gifted Legilimens, seems to know whether students, specifically Harry, (again, particularly easy to “read” so to speak) have done something they shouldn’t have, regardless of whether he has evidence.
– Mary
Dec 27 '17 at 4:27
If you need to add to your answer or change something you can click the edit button below the post or in the link to the left to touch-up your answer.
– Edlothiad
Dec 27 '17 at 4:42
3
3
Also, I meant to mention, the word Legilimens implies not specifically mind-reading, but knowing the truth. I suspect more complicated or “deep” Legilimency involves actually seeing memories and more subtle Legilimency can simply sense whether a person is being truthful or not. This also explains why Snape, a gifted Legilimens, seems to know whether students, specifically Harry, (again, particularly easy to “read” so to speak) have done something they shouldn’t have, regardless of whether he has evidence.
– Mary
Dec 27 '17 at 4:27
Also, I meant to mention, the word Legilimens implies not specifically mind-reading, but knowing the truth. I suspect more complicated or “deep” Legilimency involves actually seeing memories and more subtle Legilimency can simply sense whether a person is being truthful or not. This also explains why Snape, a gifted Legilimens, seems to know whether students, specifically Harry, (again, particularly easy to “read” so to speak) have done something they shouldn’t have, regardless of whether he has evidence.
– Mary
Dec 27 '17 at 4:27
If you need to add to your answer or change something you can click the edit button below the post or in the link to the left to touch-up your answer.
– Edlothiad
Dec 27 '17 at 4:42
If you need to add to your answer or change something you can click the edit button below the post or in the link to the left to touch-up your answer.
– Edlothiad
Dec 27 '17 at 4:42
add a comment |
I agree with this answer that Legilimency isn't imperceptible, that the 'victim' knows what information is being extracted and that the example with Snape and Harry proves this.
We do have one hint that Dumbledore used Legilimency on Harry, however. Since it's the only instance in canon that suggests this explicitly I thought I'd add an answer to the pile.
Boiling with anger at Snape, his desire to do something desperate and risky had increased tenfold in the last few minutes. This seemed to show on Harry's face, for Dumbledore moved away from the window, and looked more closely at Harry, a slight crease between his silver eyebrows.
"What has happened to you?"
"Nothing," lied Harry promptly.
"What has upset you?"
"I'm not upset."
"Harry, you were never a good Occlumens -"
(Half-Blood Prince, Chapter 25, The Seer Overheard).
Dumbledore's behaviour here is consistent with the use of Legilimency. He maintains eye contact and focuses intently on Harry. Ultimately, he's able to work out that Harry's lying to him.
Arguably, Dumbledore wouldn't have needed to use Legilimency to work out that Harry was lying to him. Harry was not in control of his emotions and was pretty easy to read once Dumbledore started observing him closely. Moreover, Dumbledore doesn't find out exactly what Harry is angry about, which he probably would have done if he were using Legilimency.
On balance, I don't think that Dumbledore was using Legilimency here. Nevertheless, Dumbledore brings up Harry not being good at Occlumency, which could indicate that he had used it. I don't think he did but it's possible to make an argument that he did based on Dumbledore's wording.
add a comment |
I agree with this answer that Legilimency isn't imperceptible, that the 'victim' knows what information is being extracted and that the example with Snape and Harry proves this.
We do have one hint that Dumbledore used Legilimency on Harry, however. Since it's the only instance in canon that suggests this explicitly I thought I'd add an answer to the pile.
Boiling with anger at Snape, his desire to do something desperate and risky had increased tenfold in the last few minutes. This seemed to show on Harry's face, for Dumbledore moved away from the window, and looked more closely at Harry, a slight crease between his silver eyebrows.
"What has happened to you?"
"Nothing," lied Harry promptly.
"What has upset you?"
"I'm not upset."
"Harry, you were never a good Occlumens -"
(Half-Blood Prince, Chapter 25, The Seer Overheard).
Dumbledore's behaviour here is consistent with the use of Legilimency. He maintains eye contact and focuses intently on Harry. Ultimately, he's able to work out that Harry's lying to him.
Arguably, Dumbledore wouldn't have needed to use Legilimency to work out that Harry was lying to him. Harry was not in control of his emotions and was pretty easy to read once Dumbledore started observing him closely. Moreover, Dumbledore doesn't find out exactly what Harry is angry about, which he probably would have done if he were using Legilimency.
On balance, I don't think that Dumbledore was using Legilimency here. Nevertheless, Dumbledore brings up Harry not being good at Occlumency, which could indicate that he had used it. I don't think he did but it's possible to make an argument that he did based on Dumbledore's wording.
add a comment |
I agree with this answer that Legilimency isn't imperceptible, that the 'victim' knows what information is being extracted and that the example with Snape and Harry proves this.
We do have one hint that Dumbledore used Legilimency on Harry, however. Since it's the only instance in canon that suggests this explicitly I thought I'd add an answer to the pile.
Boiling with anger at Snape, his desire to do something desperate and risky had increased tenfold in the last few minutes. This seemed to show on Harry's face, for Dumbledore moved away from the window, and looked more closely at Harry, a slight crease between his silver eyebrows.
"What has happened to you?"
"Nothing," lied Harry promptly.
"What has upset you?"
"I'm not upset."
"Harry, you were never a good Occlumens -"
(Half-Blood Prince, Chapter 25, The Seer Overheard).
Dumbledore's behaviour here is consistent with the use of Legilimency. He maintains eye contact and focuses intently on Harry. Ultimately, he's able to work out that Harry's lying to him.
Arguably, Dumbledore wouldn't have needed to use Legilimency to work out that Harry was lying to him. Harry was not in control of his emotions and was pretty easy to read once Dumbledore started observing him closely. Moreover, Dumbledore doesn't find out exactly what Harry is angry about, which he probably would have done if he were using Legilimency.
On balance, I don't think that Dumbledore was using Legilimency here. Nevertheless, Dumbledore brings up Harry not being good at Occlumency, which could indicate that he had used it. I don't think he did but it's possible to make an argument that he did based on Dumbledore's wording.
I agree with this answer that Legilimency isn't imperceptible, that the 'victim' knows what information is being extracted and that the example with Snape and Harry proves this.
We do have one hint that Dumbledore used Legilimency on Harry, however. Since it's the only instance in canon that suggests this explicitly I thought I'd add an answer to the pile.
Boiling with anger at Snape, his desire to do something desperate and risky had increased tenfold in the last few minutes. This seemed to show on Harry's face, for Dumbledore moved away from the window, and looked more closely at Harry, a slight crease between his silver eyebrows.
"What has happened to you?"
"Nothing," lied Harry promptly.
"What has upset you?"
"I'm not upset."
"Harry, you were never a good Occlumens -"
(Half-Blood Prince, Chapter 25, The Seer Overheard).
Dumbledore's behaviour here is consistent with the use of Legilimency. He maintains eye contact and focuses intently on Harry. Ultimately, he's able to work out that Harry's lying to him.
Arguably, Dumbledore wouldn't have needed to use Legilimency to work out that Harry was lying to him. Harry was not in control of his emotions and was pretty easy to read once Dumbledore started observing him closely. Moreover, Dumbledore doesn't find out exactly what Harry is angry about, which he probably would have done if he were using Legilimency.
On balance, I don't think that Dumbledore was using Legilimency here. Nevertheless, Dumbledore brings up Harry not being good at Occlumency, which could indicate that he had used it. I don't think he did but it's possible to make an argument that he did based on Dumbledore's wording.
edited Jan 9 '18 at 22:36
answered Jan 9 '18 at 18:41
The Dark LordThe Dark Lord
40.9k22199323
40.9k22199323
add a comment |
add a comment |
No.
Harry would know if legilimency was being used on him, as when Snape used legilimency on Harry (all emphasis added):
“Liar,” said Snape. Harry’s throat went dry. He knew what Snape was going to do and he had never been able to prevent it. …
The bathroom seemed to shimmer before his eyes; he struggled to block out all thought, but try as he might, the Half-Blood Prince's copy of Advanced Potion-Making swam hazily to the forefront of his mind.
And then he was staring at Snape again, in the midst of this wrecked, soaked bathroom. He stared into Snape's black eyes, hoping against hope that Snape had not seen what he feared, but –
Here, what Snape was trying to see "swam [...] to the forefront of his [Harry's] mind", so Harry was an observer as well as Snape.
This did not happen when Dumbledore gave Harry a piercing look; I guess he was just looking sharply at Harry.
Remember, Dumbledore was extremely smart and had a lot of information that Harry didn't. Chances are that he could guess anything he was a bit uncertain about simply by observing Harry closely and his reactions to what Dumbledore was saying.
2
That's far from conclusive; Dumbledore could be better than Snape and be able to perform it more subtly, or Dumbledore could be not going as deep (detecting just whether Harry was lying, rather than looking for specific details), etc.
– Acccumulation
Jan 4 '18 at 17:08
add a comment |
No.
Harry would know if legilimency was being used on him, as when Snape used legilimency on Harry (all emphasis added):
“Liar,” said Snape. Harry’s throat went dry. He knew what Snape was going to do and he had never been able to prevent it. …
The bathroom seemed to shimmer before his eyes; he struggled to block out all thought, but try as he might, the Half-Blood Prince's copy of Advanced Potion-Making swam hazily to the forefront of his mind.
And then he was staring at Snape again, in the midst of this wrecked, soaked bathroom. He stared into Snape's black eyes, hoping against hope that Snape had not seen what he feared, but –
Here, what Snape was trying to see "swam [...] to the forefront of his [Harry's] mind", so Harry was an observer as well as Snape.
This did not happen when Dumbledore gave Harry a piercing look; I guess he was just looking sharply at Harry.
Remember, Dumbledore was extremely smart and had a lot of information that Harry didn't. Chances are that he could guess anything he was a bit uncertain about simply by observing Harry closely and his reactions to what Dumbledore was saying.
2
That's far from conclusive; Dumbledore could be better than Snape and be able to perform it more subtly, or Dumbledore could be not going as deep (detecting just whether Harry was lying, rather than looking for specific details), etc.
– Acccumulation
Jan 4 '18 at 17:08
add a comment |
No.
Harry would know if legilimency was being used on him, as when Snape used legilimency on Harry (all emphasis added):
“Liar,” said Snape. Harry’s throat went dry. He knew what Snape was going to do and he had never been able to prevent it. …
The bathroom seemed to shimmer before his eyes; he struggled to block out all thought, but try as he might, the Half-Blood Prince's copy of Advanced Potion-Making swam hazily to the forefront of his mind.
And then he was staring at Snape again, in the midst of this wrecked, soaked bathroom. He stared into Snape's black eyes, hoping against hope that Snape had not seen what he feared, but –
Here, what Snape was trying to see "swam [...] to the forefront of his [Harry's] mind", so Harry was an observer as well as Snape.
This did not happen when Dumbledore gave Harry a piercing look; I guess he was just looking sharply at Harry.
Remember, Dumbledore was extremely smart and had a lot of information that Harry didn't. Chances are that he could guess anything he was a bit uncertain about simply by observing Harry closely and his reactions to what Dumbledore was saying.
No.
Harry would know if legilimency was being used on him, as when Snape used legilimency on Harry (all emphasis added):
“Liar,” said Snape. Harry’s throat went dry. He knew what Snape was going to do and he had never been able to prevent it. …
The bathroom seemed to shimmer before his eyes; he struggled to block out all thought, but try as he might, the Half-Blood Prince's copy of Advanced Potion-Making swam hazily to the forefront of his mind.
And then he was staring at Snape again, in the midst of this wrecked, soaked bathroom. He stared into Snape's black eyes, hoping against hope that Snape had not seen what he feared, but –
Here, what Snape was trying to see "swam [...] to the forefront of his [Harry's] mind", so Harry was an observer as well as Snape.
This did not happen when Dumbledore gave Harry a piercing look; I guess he was just looking sharply at Harry.
Remember, Dumbledore was extremely smart and had a lot of information that Harry didn't. Chances are that he could guess anything he was a bit uncertain about simply by observing Harry closely and his reactions to what Dumbledore was saying.
edited May 27 '16 at 8:42
answered May 26 '16 at 21:39
user32390
2
That's far from conclusive; Dumbledore could be better than Snape and be able to perform it more subtly, or Dumbledore could be not going as deep (detecting just whether Harry was lying, rather than looking for specific details), etc.
– Acccumulation
Jan 4 '18 at 17:08
add a comment |
2
That's far from conclusive; Dumbledore could be better than Snape and be able to perform it more subtly, or Dumbledore could be not going as deep (detecting just whether Harry was lying, rather than looking for specific details), etc.
– Acccumulation
Jan 4 '18 at 17:08
2
2
That's far from conclusive; Dumbledore could be better than Snape and be able to perform it more subtly, or Dumbledore could be not going as deep (detecting just whether Harry was lying, rather than looking for specific details), etc.
– Acccumulation
Jan 4 '18 at 17:08
That's far from conclusive; Dumbledore could be better than Snape and be able to perform it more subtly, or Dumbledore could be not going as deep (detecting just whether Harry was lying, rather than looking for specific details), etc.
– Acccumulation
Jan 4 '18 at 17:08
add a comment |
I doubt it.
If Dumbledore wouldn't use Legilimency on Slughorn to learn what he had told Riddle all those years ago, instead relying on Slughorn being honest, why would he read Harry's mind instead of just asking him? What ZenLogic said about Harry's free will is extremely important.
You have to remember that Dumbledore had taught literally hundreds of students, so Dumbledore's "piercing look" would have been something he had used for decades. I believe it is simply reading the non-verbal cues of a child that is not yet in control of their emotions.
add a comment |
I doubt it.
If Dumbledore wouldn't use Legilimency on Slughorn to learn what he had told Riddle all those years ago, instead relying on Slughorn being honest, why would he read Harry's mind instead of just asking him? What ZenLogic said about Harry's free will is extremely important.
You have to remember that Dumbledore had taught literally hundreds of students, so Dumbledore's "piercing look" would have been something he had used for decades. I believe it is simply reading the non-verbal cues of a child that is not yet in control of their emotions.
add a comment |
I doubt it.
If Dumbledore wouldn't use Legilimency on Slughorn to learn what he had told Riddle all those years ago, instead relying on Slughorn being honest, why would he read Harry's mind instead of just asking him? What ZenLogic said about Harry's free will is extremely important.
You have to remember that Dumbledore had taught literally hundreds of students, so Dumbledore's "piercing look" would have been something he had used for decades. I believe it is simply reading the non-verbal cues of a child that is not yet in control of their emotions.
I doubt it.
If Dumbledore wouldn't use Legilimency on Slughorn to learn what he had told Riddle all those years ago, instead relying on Slughorn being honest, why would he read Harry's mind instead of just asking him? What ZenLogic said about Harry's free will is extremely important.
You have to remember that Dumbledore had taught literally hundreds of students, so Dumbledore's "piercing look" would have been something he had used for decades. I believe it is simply reading the non-verbal cues of a child that is not yet in control of their emotions.
answered Jan 4 '18 at 17:32
scottscott
84649
84649
add a comment |
add a comment |
YES.
Then how did Dumbledore and Snape know Harry was there under the invisibility cloak? Dumbledore saw him and knew he was there in Hagrid's house. How could he not be like Queenie? Throughout all movies he suggests he knows what people are thinking before they say it, esp. Obvious with Leta Lestrange.
New contributor
add a comment |
YES.
Then how did Dumbledore and Snape know Harry was there under the invisibility cloak? Dumbledore saw him and knew he was there in Hagrid's house. How could he not be like Queenie? Throughout all movies he suggests he knows what people are thinking before they say it, esp. Obvious with Leta Lestrange.
New contributor
add a comment |
YES.
Then how did Dumbledore and Snape know Harry was there under the invisibility cloak? Dumbledore saw him and knew he was there in Hagrid's house. How could he not be like Queenie? Throughout all movies he suggests he knows what people are thinking before they say it, esp. Obvious with Leta Lestrange.
New contributor
YES.
Then how did Dumbledore and Snape know Harry was there under the invisibility cloak? Dumbledore saw him and knew he was there in Hagrid's house. How could he not be like Queenie? Throughout all movies he suggests he knows what people are thinking before they say it, esp. Obvious with Leta Lestrange.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 9 mins ago
DanieDanie
1
1
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
My opinion is that if Albus Dumbledore as headmaster made it forbidden to use veritaserum (truth potion), Order of the Phoenix, then why would he allow the use of legilimency? (of course only when it was really needed, in Half Blood Prince).
He trusted Harry well enough with all his secrets and more importantly, he once said that truth is a good and terrible thing.
He also said that curiosity should be treated with caution and I believe he wouldn't break his own values.
add a comment |
My opinion is that if Albus Dumbledore as headmaster made it forbidden to use veritaserum (truth potion), Order of the Phoenix, then why would he allow the use of legilimency? (of course only when it was really needed, in Half Blood Prince).
He trusted Harry well enough with all his secrets and more importantly, he once said that truth is a good and terrible thing.
He also said that curiosity should be treated with caution and I believe he wouldn't break his own values.
add a comment |
My opinion is that if Albus Dumbledore as headmaster made it forbidden to use veritaserum (truth potion), Order of the Phoenix, then why would he allow the use of legilimency? (of course only when it was really needed, in Half Blood Prince).
He trusted Harry well enough with all his secrets and more importantly, he once said that truth is a good and terrible thing.
He also said that curiosity should be treated with caution and I believe he wouldn't break his own values.
My opinion is that if Albus Dumbledore as headmaster made it forbidden to use veritaserum (truth potion), Order of the Phoenix, then why would he allow the use of legilimency? (of course only when it was really needed, in Half Blood Prince).
He trusted Harry well enough with all his secrets and more importantly, he once said that truth is a good and terrible thing.
He also said that curiosity should be treated with caution and I believe he wouldn't break his own values.
edited Jan 4 '18 at 16:55
RDFozz
5,93411552
5,93411552
answered May 26 '16 at 19:33
everwriteloveeverwritelove
1
1
add a comment |
add a comment |
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16
I can't remember anything in the books to suggest that. I thought it was the kind of "piercing look" I used to give my students when I wasn't sure they were telling the truth.
– Matt Gutting
Jul 29 '14 at 12:27
1
@MattGutting Harry admits that Dunbledore sees through him in a way even Mad eye's magical eye couldn't. Just my thought
– Hashir Omer
Jul 29 '14 at 12:29
4
@HashirOmer - yes. I felt the same way with some of my Muggle teachers.
– DVK-on-Ahch-To
Jul 30 '14 at 18:00