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Why didn't Malfoy's wand pass its allegiance to Ginny?



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)
Favorite questions and answers from first quarter of 2019
Latest Blog Post: Avengers: Endgame PredictionsWhy does everyone's wand still work for them?Could Harry Potter Have Given Draco Malfoy's Wand Back?Could Harry Potter Have Given Draco Malfoy's Wand Back?Was Harry making a big mistake with his plan for Elder Wand?Did Ron's Wand Change Its Allegiance to Lockhart in Chamber of Secrets?Why were the Death Eaters so lenient during the fight at the Department of Mysteries?What will happen to the wand's allegiance if its owner dies naturally?Would Draco Malfoy's wand chosen Harry if he had tried it out initially?How can Ollivander tell a wand has changed allegiance?Why weren't house elves used in the war against Voldemort?Is it a wand core that gives it its awareness?Why was Molly still wearing her cloak?





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7















Towards the end of Order of the Phoenix, after Umbridge has been carried away by the Centaurs, and when they have to get away from Umbridge's Inquisitorial Squad, Ginny overpowers Malfoy in Umbridge's office.




“How did you get away?” asked Harry in amazement, taking his wand
from Ron. “Couple of Stunners, a Disarming Charm, Neville brought off
a really nice little Impediment Jinx,” said Ron airily, now handing
back Hermione's wand, too. “But Ginny was best, she got Malfoy – Bat
Bogey Hex – it was superb, his whole face was covered in the great
flapping things.”




Shouldn't Ginny own Malfoy's wand then? Harry should have had to disarm Ginny to get Malfoy's wand in the last book. So how does this work? Do they need to claim the wand as well, besides overpowering the owner, as Harry did in the final book? Then why does the Elder Wand belong to Malfoy and then to Harry, as non of them actually claimed the wand after overpowering their respective owners?










share|improve this question

























  • A single hex isn't likely enough to make a wand consider Ginny its new master, especially if she never disarmed or otherwise removed Malfoy's wand from him.

    – Anthony Grist
    Sep 14 '13 at 17:42











  • so to get a wand, you need to overpower as well as claim a wand then; just overpowering is not enough for some wands

    – user13267
    Sep 14 '13 at 19:35











  • See also the related question scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/6910 Why does everyone's wand still work for them?

    – b_jonas
    Dec 16 '13 at 9:38


















7















Towards the end of Order of the Phoenix, after Umbridge has been carried away by the Centaurs, and when they have to get away from Umbridge's Inquisitorial Squad, Ginny overpowers Malfoy in Umbridge's office.




“How did you get away?” asked Harry in amazement, taking his wand
from Ron. “Couple of Stunners, a Disarming Charm, Neville brought off
a really nice little Impediment Jinx,” said Ron airily, now handing
back Hermione's wand, too. “But Ginny was best, she got Malfoy – Bat
Bogey Hex – it was superb, his whole face was covered in the great
flapping things.”




Shouldn't Ginny own Malfoy's wand then? Harry should have had to disarm Ginny to get Malfoy's wand in the last book. So how does this work? Do they need to claim the wand as well, besides overpowering the owner, as Harry did in the final book? Then why does the Elder Wand belong to Malfoy and then to Harry, as non of them actually claimed the wand after overpowering their respective owners?










share|improve this question

























  • A single hex isn't likely enough to make a wand consider Ginny its new master, especially if she never disarmed or otherwise removed Malfoy's wand from him.

    – Anthony Grist
    Sep 14 '13 at 17:42











  • so to get a wand, you need to overpower as well as claim a wand then; just overpowering is not enough for some wands

    – user13267
    Sep 14 '13 at 19:35











  • See also the related question scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/6910 Why does everyone's wand still work for them?

    – b_jonas
    Dec 16 '13 at 9:38














7












7








7








Towards the end of Order of the Phoenix, after Umbridge has been carried away by the Centaurs, and when they have to get away from Umbridge's Inquisitorial Squad, Ginny overpowers Malfoy in Umbridge's office.




“How did you get away?” asked Harry in amazement, taking his wand
from Ron. “Couple of Stunners, a Disarming Charm, Neville brought off
a really nice little Impediment Jinx,” said Ron airily, now handing
back Hermione's wand, too. “But Ginny was best, she got Malfoy – Bat
Bogey Hex – it was superb, his whole face was covered in the great
flapping things.”




Shouldn't Ginny own Malfoy's wand then? Harry should have had to disarm Ginny to get Malfoy's wand in the last book. So how does this work? Do they need to claim the wand as well, besides overpowering the owner, as Harry did in the final book? Then why does the Elder Wand belong to Malfoy and then to Harry, as non of them actually claimed the wand after overpowering their respective owners?










share|improve this question
















Towards the end of Order of the Phoenix, after Umbridge has been carried away by the Centaurs, and when they have to get away from Umbridge's Inquisitorial Squad, Ginny overpowers Malfoy in Umbridge's office.




“How did you get away?” asked Harry in amazement, taking his wand
from Ron. “Couple of Stunners, a Disarming Charm, Neville brought off
a really nice little Impediment Jinx,” said Ron airily, now handing
back Hermione's wand, too. “But Ginny was best, she got Malfoy – Bat
Bogey Hex – it was superb, his whole face was covered in the great
flapping things.”




Shouldn't Ginny own Malfoy's wand then? Harry should have had to disarm Ginny to get Malfoy's wand in the last book. So how does this work? Do they need to claim the wand as well, besides overpowering the owner, as Harry did in the final book? Then why does the Elder Wand belong to Malfoy and then to Harry, as non of them actually claimed the wand after overpowering their respective owners?







harry-potter wandlore plot-device






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Sep 14 '13 at 11:40









alexwlchan

95.1k13389444




95.1k13389444










asked Sep 14 '13 at 4:16









user13267user13267

13.8k890167




13.8k890167













  • A single hex isn't likely enough to make a wand consider Ginny its new master, especially if she never disarmed or otherwise removed Malfoy's wand from him.

    – Anthony Grist
    Sep 14 '13 at 17:42











  • so to get a wand, you need to overpower as well as claim a wand then; just overpowering is not enough for some wands

    – user13267
    Sep 14 '13 at 19:35











  • See also the related question scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/6910 Why does everyone's wand still work for them?

    – b_jonas
    Dec 16 '13 at 9:38



















  • A single hex isn't likely enough to make a wand consider Ginny its new master, especially if she never disarmed or otherwise removed Malfoy's wand from him.

    – Anthony Grist
    Sep 14 '13 at 17:42











  • so to get a wand, you need to overpower as well as claim a wand then; just overpowering is not enough for some wands

    – user13267
    Sep 14 '13 at 19:35











  • See also the related question scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/6910 Why does everyone's wand still work for them?

    – b_jonas
    Dec 16 '13 at 9:38

















A single hex isn't likely enough to make a wand consider Ginny its new master, especially if she never disarmed or otherwise removed Malfoy's wand from him.

– Anthony Grist
Sep 14 '13 at 17:42





A single hex isn't likely enough to make a wand consider Ginny its new master, especially if she never disarmed or otherwise removed Malfoy's wand from him.

– Anthony Grist
Sep 14 '13 at 17:42













so to get a wand, you need to overpower as well as claim a wand then; just overpowering is not enough for some wands

– user13267
Sep 14 '13 at 19:35





so to get a wand, you need to overpower as well as claim a wand then; just overpowering is not enough for some wands

– user13267
Sep 14 '13 at 19:35













See also the related question scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/6910 Why does everyone's wand still work for them?

– b_jonas
Dec 16 '13 at 9:38





See also the related question scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/6910 Why does everyone's wand still work for them?

– b_jonas
Dec 16 '13 at 9:38










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















8














It's only the Elder Wand that changes allegiance when its master is defeated. That fight between Ginny and Malfoy took place before Malfoy disarmed Dumbledore and became the new master of the Elder Wand. Fights he lost before that are not relevant to the mastery of the Elder Wand.



In Deathly Hallows chapter 24, we're told




“Hawthorn and unicorn hair. Ten inches precisely. Reasonably springy. This was the wand of Draco Malfoy.”




According to this answer unicorn hair wands are very loyal and don't change allegiance easily. Since Ginny didn't keep Malfoy's wand, she never gained its allegiance.






share|improve this answer


























  • that's not the point. The question is, why didn't Ginney own Malfoy's Dragon heart string wand after that victory?

    – user13267
    Sep 14 '13 at 7:56






  • 2





    Well, for one thing, his wand wasn't dragon heartstring, it was unicorn hair.

    – cjm
    Sep 14 '13 at 14:24






  • 2





    First sentence of your answer is incorrect, as demonstrated by the quote in your answer and the discussion taking place immediately afterwards.

    – Anthony Grist
    Sep 14 '13 at 17:27






  • 1





    @AnthonyGrist No, the point is that Harry disarmed and took Draco's wand, while Ginny didn't take it. While I don't know if Rowling ever spelled out the specifics, we do know that normal wands require more work than the Elder Wand to switch allegiance.

    – Izkata
    Sep 14 '13 at 18:21








  • 5





    @Izkata I'm well aware of all of that, but that doesn't change anything with regard to my comment. Saying the Elder wand is the only wand that switches allegiance when its master is defeated is flat out wrong; at best they worded it awfully, at worst they don't know what they're talking about (I suspect it's the former rather than the latter, but either way the answer needs some serious edits as far as I'm concerned).

    – Anthony Grist
    Sep 14 '13 at 23:41





















3














I don't agree that it's only the elder wand that will change allegence.



With wand lore Olivander states that wands can change allegence, he doesn't specifically mention the elder wand in that statement.



So, does Ginny own Malfoys wand ? I'd say no, purely because she just cast the 'bat bogey hex', this doesn't mean she disarmed him.



Also, there has to be a wand lore limit to 'wand changes allegence after defeat/disarm' otherwise the members of Dumbledores army, when practicing in the room of requirement would have been changing wands left right and centre !






share|improve this answer































    0














    Maybe Ginny would have had to take Malfoy's wand physically in order to get it to change allegiance?



    I think it's a plot inconsistency. Ginny overpowered Malfoy in a combat situation, so surely, the wand allegiance would change, no? Maybe JK Rowling forgot to use her own rules here.



    On the other hand, maybe you have to use Expelliarmus, the spell to make a wand fly out of someone's hand, or some other spell to very specifically knock someone out of the way - although she used Bat Bogey Hex, so that should do it. It's very odd she doesnt just go grab the wand, because if nothing else surely the kids could use an extra weapon at the dept of myst when they go to fight? Even if it had not switched allegiance and she wouldn't have been able to do good spells with it, you can still use a wand to stab an eye (excuse the grossness please!).






    share|improve this answer































      0














      Perhaps it did.



      Harry never had any interaction with the Elder Wand (prior to the final battle with Voldemort). He didn’t disarm it from Dumbledore, nor did he disarm it from Malfoy. All he did was disarm Malfoy’s regular wand.



      In order for Harry to have the Elder Wand’s allegiance, then, we have to assume that when one wizard disarms another he gains the allegiance of not only the wand he disarmed but all wands currently under the allegiance of that wizard. By disarming Malfoy Harry thus gained the allegiance of all of Malfoy’s wands, one of which was the Elder Wand.



      Now let’s consider Ginny. If we assume that the Bat-Bogey Hex counts as defeating an opponent then that would mean that Ginny gained the allegiance of all of Malfoy’s wands at that time. Then a year later Malfoy defeated Dumbledore and acquired the allegiance of all of Dumbledore’s wands, including the Elder Wand.



      Almost a year after that Harry defeated Malfoy. That means that he then acquired the allegiance of all wands whose allegiance was to Malfoy. That would include the Elder Wand but it would not include Malfoy’s original wand. Since Harry never defeated Ginny, that wand still owed its allegiance to her (or to anyone who may have defeated Ginny in the interim).



      The conclusion of all this would be that Harry had the allegiance of the Elder Wand without ever interacting with it, but he did not have the allegiance of Malfoy’s wand despite disarming it from him.





      share
























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        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes








        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        8














        It's only the Elder Wand that changes allegiance when its master is defeated. That fight between Ginny and Malfoy took place before Malfoy disarmed Dumbledore and became the new master of the Elder Wand. Fights he lost before that are not relevant to the mastery of the Elder Wand.



        In Deathly Hallows chapter 24, we're told




        “Hawthorn and unicorn hair. Ten inches precisely. Reasonably springy. This was the wand of Draco Malfoy.”




        According to this answer unicorn hair wands are very loyal and don't change allegiance easily. Since Ginny didn't keep Malfoy's wand, she never gained its allegiance.






        share|improve this answer


























        • that's not the point. The question is, why didn't Ginney own Malfoy's Dragon heart string wand after that victory?

          – user13267
          Sep 14 '13 at 7:56






        • 2





          Well, for one thing, his wand wasn't dragon heartstring, it was unicorn hair.

          – cjm
          Sep 14 '13 at 14:24






        • 2





          First sentence of your answer is incorrect, as demonstrated by the quote in your answer and the discussion taking place immediately afterwards.

          – Anthony Grist
          Sep 14 '13 at 17:27






        • 1





          @AnthonyGrist No, the point is that Harry disarmed and took Draco's wand, while Ginny didn't take it. While I don't know if Rowling ever spelled out the specifics, we do know that normal wands require more work than the Elder Wand to switch allegiance.

          – Izkata
          Sep 14 '13 at 18:21








        • 5





          @Izkata I'm well aware of all of that, but that doesn't change anything with regard to my comment. Saying the Elder wand is the only wand that switches allegiance when its master is defeated is flat out wrong; at best they worded it awfully, at worst they don't know what they're talking about (I suspect it's the former rather than the latter, but either way the answer needs some serious edits as far as I'm concerned).

          – Anthony Grist
          Sep 14 '13 at 23:41


















        8














        It's only the Elder Wand that changes allegiance when its master is defeated. That fight between Ginny and Malfoy took place before Malfoy disarmed Dumbledore and became the new master of the Elder Wand. Fights he lost before that are not relevant to the mastery of the Elder Wand.



        In Deathly Hallows chapter 24, we're told




        “Hawthorn and unicorn hair. Ten inches precisely. Reasonably springy. This was the wand of Draco Malfoy.”




        According to this answer unicorn hair wands are very loyal and don't change allegiance easily. Since Ginny didn't keep Malfoy's wand, she never gained its allegiance.






        share|improve this answer


























        • that's not the point. The question is, why didn't Ginney own Malfoy's Dragon heart string wand after that victory?

          – user13267
          Sep 14 '13 at 7:56






        • 2





          Well, for one thing, his wand wasn't dragon heartstring, it was unicorn hair.

          – cjm
          Sep 14 '13 at 14:24






        • 2





          First sentence of your answer is incorrect, as demonstrated by the quote in your answer and the discussion taking place immediately afterwards.

          – Anthony Grist
          Sep 14 '13 at 17:27






        • 1





          @AnthonyGrist No, the point is that Harry disarmed and took Draco's wand, while Ginny didn't take it. While I don't know if Rowling ever spelled out the specifics, we do know that normal wands require more work than the Elder Wand to switch allegiance.

          – Izkata
          Sep 14 '13 at 18:21








        • 5





          @Izkata I'm well aware of all of that, but that doesn't change anything with regard to my comment. Saying the Elder wand is the only wand that switches allegiance when its master is defeated is flat out wrong; at best they worded it awfully, at worst they don't know what they're talking about (I suspect it's the former rather than the latter, but either way the answer needs some serious edits as far as I'm concerned).

          – Anthony Grist
          Sep 14 '13 at 23:41
















        8












        8








        8







        It's only the Elder Wand that changes allegiance when its master is defeated. That fight between Ginny and Malfoy took place before Malfoy disarmed Dumbledore and became the new master of the Elder Wand. Fights he lost before that are not relevant to the mastery of the Elder Wand.



        In Deathly Hallows chapter 24, we're told




        “Hawthorn and unicorn hair. Ten inches precisely. Reasonably springy. This was the wand of Draco Malfoy.”




        According to this answer unicorn hair wands are very loyal and don't change allegiance easily. Since Ginny didn't keep Malfoy's wand, she never gained its allegiance.






        share|improve this answer















        It's only the Elder Wand that changes allegiance when its master is defeated. That fight between Ginny and Malfoy took place before Malfoy disarmed Dumbledore and became the new master of the Elder Wand. Fights he lost before that are not relevant to the mastery of the Elder Wand.



        In Deathly Hallows chapter 24, we're told




        “Hawthorn and unicorn hair. Ten inches precisely. Reasonably springy. This was the wand of Draco Malfoy.”




        According to this answer unicorn hair wands are very loyal and don't change allegiance easily. Since Ginny didn't keep Malfoy's wand, she never gained its allegiance.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited Apr 13 '17 at 12:43









        Community

        1




        1










        answered Sep 14 '13 at 7:35









        cjmcjm

        6,49843335




        6,49843335













        • that's not the point. The question is, why didn't Ginney own Malfoy's Dragon heart string wand after that victory?

          – user13267
          Sep 14 '13 at 7:56






        • 2





          Well, for one thing, his wand wasn't dragon heartstring, it was unicorn hair.

          – cjm
          Sep 14 '13 at 14:24






        • 2





          First sentence of your answer is incorrect, as demonstrated by the quote in your answer and the discussion taking place immediately afterwards.

          – Anthony Grist
          Sep 14 '13 at 17:27






        • 1





          @AnthonyGrist No, the point is that Harry disarmed and took Draco's wand, while Ginny didn't take it. While I don't know if Rowling ever spelled out the specifics, we do know that normal wands require more work than the Elder Wand to switch allegiance.

          – Izkata
          Sep 14 '13 at 18:21








        • 5





          @Izkata I'm well aware of all of that, but that doesn't change anything with regard to my comment. Saying the Elder wand is the only wand that switches allegiance when its master is defeated is flat out wrong; at best they worded it awfully, at worst they don't know what they're talking about (I suspect it's the former rather than the latter, but either way the answer needs some serious edits as far as I'm concerned).

          – Anthony Grist
          Sep 14 '13 at 23:41





















        • that's not the point. The question is, why didn't Ginney own Malfoy's Dragon heart string wand after that victory?

          – user13267
          Sep 14 '13 at 7:56






        • 2





          Well, for one thing, his wand wasn't dragon heartstring, it was unicorn hair.

          – cjm
          Sep 14 '13 at 14:24






        • 2





          First sentence of your answer is incorrect, as demonstrated by the quote in your answer and the discussion taking place immediately afterwards.

          – Anthony Grist
          Sep 14 '13 at 17:27






        • 1





          @AnthonyGrist No, the point is that Harry disarmed and took Draco's wand, while Ginny didn't take it. While I don't know if Rowling ever spelled out the specifics, we do know that normal wands require more work than the Elder Wand to switch allegiance.

          – Izkata
          Sep 14 '13 at 18:21








        • 5





          @Izkata I'm well aware of all of that, but that doesn't change anything with regard to my comment. Saying the Elder wand is the only wand that switches allegiance when its master is defeated is flat out wrong; at best they worded it awfully, at worst they don't know what they're talking about (I suspect it's the former rather than the latter, but either way the answer needs some serious edits as far as I'm concerned).

          – Anthony Grist
          Sep 14 '13 at 23:41



















        that's not the point. The question is, why didn't Ginney own Malfoy's Dragon heart string wand after that victory?

        – user13267
        Sep 14 '13 at 7:56





        that's not the point. The question is, why didn't Ginney own Malfoy's Dragon heart string wand after that victory?

        – user13267
        Sep 14 '13 at 7:56




        2




        2





        Well, for one thing, his wand wasn't dragon heartstring, it was unicorn hair.

        – cjm
        Sep 14 '13 at 14:24





        Well, for one thing, his wand wasn't dragon heartstring, it was unicorn hair.

        – cjm
        Sep 14 '13 at 14:24




        2




        2





        First sentence of your answer is incorrect, as demonstrated by the quote in your answer and the discussion taking place immediately afterwards.

        – Anthony Grist
        Sep 14 '13 at 17:27





        First sentence of your answer is incorrect, as demonstrated by the quote in your answer and the discussion taking place immediately afterwards.

        – Anthony Grist
        Sep 14 '13 at 17:27




        1




        1





        @AnthonyGrist No, the point is that Harry disarmed and took Draco's wand, while Ginny didn't take it. While I don't know if Rowling ever spelled out the specifics, we do know that normal wands require more work than the Elder Wand to switch allegiance.

        – Izkata
        Sep 14 '13 at 18:21







        @AnthonyGrist No, the point is that Harry disarmed and took Draco's wand, while Ginny didn't take it. While I don't know if Rowling ever spelled out the specifics, we do know that normal wands require more work than the Elder Wand to switch allegiance.

        – Izkata
        Sep 14 '13 at 18:21






        5




        5





        @Izkata I'm well aware of all of that, but that doesn't change anything with regard to my comment. Saying the Elder wand is the only wand that switches allegiance when its master is defeated is flat out wrong; at best they worded it awfully, at worst they don't know what they're talking about (I suspect it's the former rather than the latter, but either way the answer needs some serious edits as far as I'm concerned).

        – Anthony Grist
        Sep 14 '13 at 23:41







        @Izkata I'm well aware of all of that, but that doesn't change anything with regard to my comment. Saying the Elder wand is the only wand that switches allegiance when its master is defeated is flat out wrong; at best they worded it awfully, at worst they don't know what they're talking about (I suspect it's the former rather than the latter, but either way the answer needs some serious edits as far as I'm concerned).

        – Anthony Grist
        Sep 14 '13 at 23:41















        3














        I don't agree that it's only the elder wand that will change allegence.



        With wand lore Olivander states that wands can change allegence, he doesn't specifically mention the elder wand in that statement.



        So, does Ginny own Malfoys wand ? I'd say no, purely because she just cast the 'bat bogey hex', this doesn't mean she disarmed him.



        Also, there has to be a wand lore limit to 'wand changes allegence after defeat/disarm' otherwise the members of Dumbledores army, when practicing in the room of requirement would have been changing wands left right and centre !






        share|improve this answer




























          3














          I don't agree that it's only the elder wand that will change allegence.



          With wand lore Olivander states that wands can change allegence, he doesn't specifically mention the elder wand in that statement.



          So, does Ginny own Malfoys wand ? I'd say no, purely because she just cast the 'bat bogey hex', this doesn't mean she disarmed him.



          Also, there has to be a wand lore limit to 'wand changes allegence after defeat/disarm' otherwise the members of Dumbledores army, when practicing in the room of requirement would have been changing wands left right and centre !






          share|improve this answer


























            3












            3








            3







            I don't agree that it's only the elder wand that will change allegence.



            With wand lore Olivander states that wands can change allegence, he doesn't specifically mention the elder wand in that statement.



            So, does Ginny own Malfoys wand ? I'd say no, purely because she just cast the 'bat bogey hex', this doesn't mean she disarmed him.



            Also, there has to be a wand lore limit to 'wand changes allegence after defeat/disarm' otherwise the members of Dumbledores army, when practicing in the room of requirement would have been changing wands left right and centre !






            share|improve this answer













            I don't agree that it's only the elder wand that will change allegence.



            With wand lore Olivander states that wands can change allegence, he doesn't specifically mention the elder wand in that statement.



            So, does Ginny own Malfoys wand ? I'd say no, purely because she just cast the 'bat bogey hex', this doesn't mean she disarmed him.



            Also, there has to be a wand lore limit to 'wand changes allegence after defeat/disarm' otherwise the members of Dumbledores army, when practicing in the room of requirement would have been changing wands left right and centre !







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered Dec 16 '13 at 8:31









            Pat DobsonPat Dobson

            2,63321628




            2,63321628























                0














                Maybe Ginny would have had to take Malfoy's wand physically in order to get it to change allegiance?



                I think it's a plot inconsistency. Ginny overpowered Malfoy in a combat situation, so surely, the wand allegiance would change, no? Maybe JK Rowling forgot to use her own rules here.



                On the other hand, maybe you have to use Expelliarmus, the spell to make a wand fly out of someone's hand, or some other spell to very specifically knock someone out of the way - although she used Bat Bogey Hex, so that should do it. It's very odd she doesnt just go grab the wand, because if nothing else surely the kids could use an extra weapon at the dept of myst when they go to fight? Even if it had not switched allegiance and she wouldn't have been able to do good spells with it, you can still use a wand to stab an eye (excuse the grossness please!).






                share|improve this answer




























                  0














                  Maybe Ginny would have had to take Malfoy's wand physically in order to get it to change allegiance?



                  I think it's a plot inconsistency. Ginny overpowered Malfoy in a combat situation, so surely, the wand allegiance would change, no? Maybe JK Rowling forgot to use her own rules here.



                  On the other hand, maybe you have to use Expelliarmus, the spell to make a wand fly out of someone's hand, or some other spell to very specifically knock someone out of the way - although she used Bat Bogey Hex, so that should do it. It's very odd she doesnt just go grab the wand, because if nothing else surely the kids could use an extra weapon at the dept of myst when they go to fight? Even if it had not switched allegiance and she wouldn't have been able to do good spells with it, you can still use a wand to stab an eye (excuse the grossness please!).






                  share|improve this answer


























                    0












                    0








                    0







                    Maybe Ginny would have had to take Malfoy's wand physically in order to get it to change allegiance?



                    I think it's a plot inconsistency. Ginny overpowered Malfoy in a combat situation, so surely, the wand allegiance would change, no? Maybe JK Rowling forgot to use her own rules here.



                    On the other hand, maybe you have to use Expelliarmus, the spell to make a wand fly out of someone's hand, or some other spell to very specifically knock someone out of the way - although she used Bat Bogey Hex, so that should do it. It's very odd she doesnt just go grab the wand, because if nothing else surely the kids could use an extra weapon at the dept of myst when they go to fight? Even if it had not switched allegiance and she wouldn't have been able to do good spells with it, you can still use a wand to stab an eye (excuse the grossness please!).






                    share|improve this answer













                    Maybe Ginny would have had to take Malfoy's wand physically in order to get it to change allegiance?



                    I think it's a plot inconsistency. Ginny overpowered Malfoy in a combat situation, so surely, the wand allegiance would change, no? Maybe JK Rowling forgot to use her own rules here.



                    On the other hand, maybe you have to use Expelliarmus, the spell to make a wand fly out of someone's hand, or some other spell to very specifically knock someone out of the way - although she used Bat Bogey Hex, so that should do it. It's very odd she doesnt just go grab the wand, because if nothing else surely the kids could use an extra weapon at the dept of myst when they go to fight? Even if it had not switched allegiance and she wouldn't have been able to do good spells with it, you can still use a wand to stab an eye (excuse the grossness please!).







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered Sep 22 '14 at 15:47









                    CarinaCarina

                    13912




                    13912























                        0














                        Perhaps it did.



                        Harry never had any interaction with the Elder Wand (prior to the final battle with Voldemort). He didn’t disarm it from Dumbledore, nor did he disarm it from Malfoy. All he did was disarm Malfoy’s regular wand.



                        In order for Harry to have the Elder Wand’s allegiance, then, we have to assume that when one wizard disarms another he gains the allegiance of not only the wand he disarmed but all wands currently under the allegiance of that wizard. By disarming Malfoy Harry thus gained the allegiance of all of Malfoy’s wands, one of which was the Elder Wand.



                        Now let’s consider Ginny. If we assume that the Bat-Bogey Hex counts as defeating an opponent then that would mean that Ginny gained the allegiance of all of Malfoy’s wands at that time. Then a year later Malfoy defeated Dumbledore and acquired the allegiance of all of Dumbledore’s wands, including the Elder Wand.



                        Almost a year after that Harry defeated Malfoy. That means that he then acquired the allegiance of all wands whose allegiance was to Malfoy. That would include the Elder Wand but it would not include Malfoy’s original wand. Since Harry never defeated Ginny, that wand still owed its allegiance to her (or to anyone who may have defeated Ginny in the interim).



                        The conclusion of all this would be that Harry had the allegiance of the Elder Wand without ever interacting with it, but he did not have the allegiance of Malfoy’s wand despite disarming it from him.





                        share




























                          0














                          Perhaps it did.



                          Harry never had any interaction with the Elder Wand (prior to the final battle with Voldemort). He didn’t disarm it from Dumbledore, nor did he disarm it from Malfoy. All he did was disarm Malfoy’s regular wand.



                          In order for Harry to have the Elder Wand’s allegiance, then, we have to assume that when one wizard disarms another he gains the allegiance of not only the wand he disarmed but all wands currently under the allegiance of that wizard. By disarming Malfoy Harry thus gained the allegiance of all of Malfoy’s wands, one of which was the Elder Wand.



                          Now let’s consider Ginny. If we assume that the Bat-Bogey Hex counts as defeating an opponent then that would mean that Ginny gained the allegiance of all of Malfoy’s wands at that time. Then a year later Malfoy defeated Dumbledore and acquired the allegiance of all of Dumbledore’s wands, including the Elder Wand.



                          Almost a year after that Harry defeated Malfoy. That means that he then acquired the allegiance of all wands whose allegiance was to Malfoy. That would include the Elder Wand but it would not include Malfoy’s original wand. Since Harry never defeated Ginny, that wand still owed its allegiance to her (or to anyone who may have defeated Ginny in the interim).



                          The conclusion of all this would be that Harry had the allegiance of the Elder Wand without ever interacting with it, but he did not have the allegiance of Malfoy’s wand despite disarming it from him.





                          share


























                            0












                            0








                            0







                            Perhaps it did.



                            Harry never had any interaction with the Elder Wand (prior to the final battle with Voldemort). He didn’t disarm it from Dumbledore, nor did he disarm it from Malfoy. All he did was disarm Malfoy’s regular wand.



                            In order for Harry to have the Elder Wand’s allegiance, then, we have to assume that when one wizard disarms another he gains the allegiance of not only the wand he disarmed but all wands currently under the allegiance of that wizard. By disarming Malfoy Harry thus gained the allegiance of all of Malfoy’s wands, one of which was the Elder Wand.



                            Now let’s consider Ginny. If we assume that the Bat-Bogey Hex counts as defeating an opponent then that would mean that Ginny gained the allegiance of all of Malfoy’s wands at that time. Then a year later Malfoy defeated Dumbledore and acquired the allegiance of all of Dumbledore’s wands, including the Elder Wand.



                            Almost a year after that Harry defeated Malfoy. That means that he then acquired the allegiance of all wands whose allegiance was to Malfoy. That would include the Elder Wand but it would not include Malfoy’s original wand. Since Harry never defeated Ginny, that wand still owed its allegiance to her (or to anyone who may have defeated Ginny in the interim).



                            The conclusion of all this would be that Harry had the allegiance of the Elder Wand without ever interacting with it, but he did not have the allegiance of Malfoy’s wand despite disarming it from him.





                            share













                            Perhaps it did.



                            Harry never had any interaction with the Elder Wand (prior to the final battle with Voldemort). He didn’t disarm it from Dumbledore, nor did he disarm it from Malfoy. All he did was disarm Malfoy’s regular wand.



                            In order for Harry to have the Elder Wand’s allegiance, then, we have to assume that when one wizard disarms another he gains the allegiance of not only the wand he disarmed but all wands currently under the allegiance of that wizard. By disarming Malfoy Harry thus gained the allegiance of all of Malfoy’s wands, one of which was the Elder Wand.



                            Now let’s consider Ginny. If we assume that the Bat-Bogey Hex counts as defeating an opponent then that would mean that Ginny gained the allegiance of all of Malfoy’s wands at that time. Then a year later Malfoy defeated Dumbledore and acquired the allegiance of all of Dumbledore’s wands, including the Elder Wand.



                            Almost a year after that Harry defeated Malfoy. That means that he then acquired the allegiance of all wands whose allegiance was to Malfoy. That would include the Elder Wand but it would not include Malfoy’s original wand. Since Harry never defeated Ginny, that wand still owed its allegiance to her (or to anyone who may have defeated Ginny in the interim).



                            The conclusion of all this would be that Harry had the allegiance of the Elder Wand without ever interacting with it, but he did not have the allegiance of Malfoy’s wand despite disarming it from him.






                            share











                            share


                            share










                            answered 8 mins ago









                            AlexAlex

                            20.5k56298




                            20.5k56298






























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