Trying to understand entropy as a novice in thermodynamics Announcing the arrival of Valued...

Can an iPhone 7 be made to function as a NFC Tag?

Why are vacuum tubes still used in amateur radios?

Is there hard evidence that the grant peer review system performs significantly better than random?

Moving a wrapfig vertically to encroach partially on a subsection title

Asymptotics question

Found this skink in my tomato plant bucket. Is he trapped? Or could he leave if he wanted?

What is the chair depicted in Cesare Maccari's 1889 painting "Cicerone denuncia Catilina"?

How would a mousetrap for use in space work?

Is CEO the "profession" with the most psychopaths?

Positioning dot before text in math mode

Monty Hall Problem-Probability Paradox

How does light 'choose' between wave and particle behaviour?

What does 丫 mean? 丫是什么意思?

Random body shuffle every night—can we still function?

Did Mueller's report provide an evidentiary basis for the claim of Russian govt election interference via social media?

If Windows 7 doesn't support WSL, then what is "Subsystem for UNIX-based Applications"?

Select every other edge (they share a common vertex)

Is there public access to the Meteor Crater in Arizona?

Can you force honesty by using the Speak with Dead and Zone of Truth spells together?

Why not send Voyager 3 and 4 following up the paths taken by Voyager 1 and 2 to re-transmit signals of later as they fly away from Earth?

Why is a lens darker than other ones when applying the same settings?

Can two person see the same photon?

Does silver oxide react with hydrogen sulfide?

One-one communication



Trying to understand entropy as a novice in thermodynamics



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)
2019 Moderator Election Q&A - Question CollectionDifficulties with understanding total entropy change and unavailabilltyHaving a problem about entropy, thermodynamicsWhy does heat added to a system at a lower temperature cause higher entropy increase?How does the second law of thermodynamics forbid the possibility of perpetual machine of the second kind?my question is about gibbs energy, entropy and all thatThe second law of thermodynamics in terms of entropy at negative absolute temperaturesEntropy Generation during Heat Transfer ProcessesHow is heat death a disorder?How does entropy exactly relate to the heat flow of a systemReversible reaction for Entropy Change of Surroundings












1












$begingroup$


I recently had my second lecture in Thermodynamics, a long lecture which involved the first law and a portion of the second law, at some point during the lecture we defined entropy as the change of heat energy per unit temperature, and from this we derived a general expression for entropy (using laws derived for ideal gases) in which it was clear that it depended on the change of temperature and volume through the process as well as the number of moles.



I have also learned that Entropy is a measure of disorder in a system which was non sense to me especially that I don't understand how disorder(chaotic movement of particles) is related to the change in heat energy per unit temperature, its more related to specific heat if you ask me, nonetheless In attempts to understand what's useful in knowing whats the amount of disorder in a system I learnt that it measures the state of reversibility of the process which still doesn't make sense when trying to relate it with the '' change in heat energy per unit temperature ''.



TL;DR
I need an answer these questions:




  1. A process has an entropy of X what does this tell me, another process has higher entropy what does this tell me, how can I relate the definition of entropy to '' change in heat energy per unit time''.


Please don't explain using statistical thermodynamics.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$

















    1












    $begingroup$


    I recently had my second lecture in Thermodynamics, a long lecture which involved the first law and a portion of the second law, at some point during the lecture we defined entropy as the change of heat energy per unit temperature, and from this we derived a general expression for entropy (using laws derived for ideal gases) in which it was clear that it depended on the change of temperature and volume through the process as well as the number of moles.



    I have also learned that Entropy is a measure of disorder in a system which was non sense to me especially that I don't understand how disorder(chaotic movement of particles) is related to the change in heat energy per unit temperature, its more related to specific heat if you ask me, nonetheless In attempts to understand what's useful in knowing whats the amount of disorder in a system I learnt that it measures the state of reversibility of the process which still doesn't make sense when trying to relate it with the '' change in heat energy per unit temperature ''.



    TL;DR
    I need an answer these questions:




    1. A process has an entropy of X what does this tell me, another process has higher entropy what does this tell me, how can I relate the definition of entropy to '' change in heat energy per unit time''.


    Please don't explain using statistical thermodynamics.










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$















      1












      1








      1





      $begingroup$


      I recently had my second lecture in Thermodynamics, a long lecture which involved the first law and a portion of the second law, at some point during the lecture we defined entropy as the change of heat energy per unit temperature, and from this we derived a general expression for entropy (using laws derived for ideal gases) in which it was clear that it depended on the change of temperature and volume through the process as well as the number of moles.



      I have also learned that Entropy is a measure of disorder in a system which was non sense to me especially that I don't understand how disorder(chaotic movement of particles) is related to the change in heat energy per unit temperature, its more related to specific heat if you ask me, nonetheless In attempts to understand what's useful in knowing whats the amount of disorder in a system I learnt that it measures the state of reversibility of the process which still doesn't make sense when trying to relate it with the '' change in heat energy per unit temperature ''.



      TL;DR
      I need an answer these questions:




      1. A process has an entropy of X what does this tell me, another process has higher entropy what does this tell me, how can I relate the definition of entropy to '' change in heat energy per unit time''.


      Please don't explain using statistical thermodynamics.










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      I recently had my second lecture in Thermodynamics, a long lecture which involved the first law and a portion of the second law, at some point during the lecture we defined entropy as the change of heat energy per unit temperature, and from this we derived a general expression for entropy (using laws derived for ideal gases) in which it was clear that it depended on the change of temperature and volume through the process as well as the number of moles.



      I have also learned that Entropy is a measure of disorder in a system which was non sense to me especially that I don't understand how disorder(chaotic movement of particles) is related to the change in heat energy per unit temperature, its more related to specific heat if you ask me, nonetheless In attempts to understand what's useful in knowing whats the amount of disorder in a system I learnt that it measures the state of reversibility of the process which still doesn't make sense when trying to relate it with the '' change in heat energy per unit temperature ''.



      TL;DR
      I need an answer these questions:




      1. A process has an entropy of X what does this tell me, another process has higher entropy what does this tell me, how can I relate the definition of entropy to '' change in heat energy per unit time''.


      Please don't explain using statistical thermodynamics.







      thermodynamics entropy






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited 1 hour ago









      Qmechanic

      108k122001249




      108k122001249










      asked 2 hours ago









      user597368user597368

      345




      345






















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          2












          $begingroup$

          This is a big topic with many aspects but let me start with the reason why entropy and the second law was needed.



          You know the first law is conservation of energy. If a hot body is placed in contact with a cold body heat normally flows from the hot body to the cold . Energy lost by the hot body equals energy gained by the cold body. Energy is conserved and the first law obeyed.



          But that law would also be satisfied if the same amount of heat flowed in the other direction. However one never sees that happen naturally (without doing work). What is more after transferring heat from hot to cold you would not expect it to spontaneously reverse itself. The process is irreversible.



          The second law and the property of entropy was developed to show how that cannot happen.



          ADDENDUM:



          Found a little more time to bring this to the next level. This will tie in what I said above to the actual second law and the property of entropy.



          So we needed a new law and property that would be violated if heat flowed naturally from a cold body to a hot body. The property is called entropy, $S$, which obeys the following inequality:



          $$Delta S_{tot}=Delta S_{sys}+Delta S_{surr}≥0$$



          Where $Delta S_{tot}$ is the total entropy change of the system plus the surrounding (entropy change of the universe) for any process where the system and surroundings interact. The equality applies if the process is reversible, and the inequality if it is irreversible. Since all real processes are irreversible (explained below), the law tells us that the total entropy of the universe increases as a result of a real process.



          The property of entropy is defined as



          $$dS=frac {dQ_{rev}}{T}$$



          where $dQ$ is a reversible differential transfer of heat and $T$ is the temperature at which it is transferred. Although it I defined for a reversible transfer of heat, it applies to any process between two states. If the process occurs at constant temperature, we can say



          $$Delta S=frac{Q}{T}$$



          where Q is the heat transferred to the system at constant temperature.



          We apply this new law to our hot and cold bodies and call them bodies A and B. To make things simple, we stipulate that the bodies are massive enough (or the amount of heat Q transferred small enough) that their temperatures stay constant during the heat transfer Applying the second law to our bodies:



          $$Delta S_{tot}=frac{-Q}{T_A}+frac{+Q}{T_B}$$



          The minus sign for body A simply means the entropy decrease for that body because heat is transferred out, and the positive sign for body B means its entropy has increased because heat is transferred in.



          From the equation, we observe that for all $T_{A}>T_{B}$, $Delta S_{tot}>0$. We further note that as the two temperatures get closer and closer to each other, $Delta S_{tot}$ goes to 0. But if $T_{A}<T_{B}$ meaning heat transfers from the cold body to the hot body, $Delta S$ would be less than zero, violating the second law. Thus the second law precludes that natural transfer of heat from a cold body to a hot body.



          Note that for $Delta S_{tot}=0$ the temperatures would have to be equal. But we know that heat will not flow unless there is a temperature difference. So we see that for all real heat transfer processes, such processes are irreversible.



          Irreversibility and entropy increase is not limited to heat transfer processes. Any process goes from a state of disequilibrium to equilibrium. Beside heat, you have processes involving pressure differentials (pressure disequilibrium). These process are also irreversible and generate entropy.



          Hope this helps.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$





















            1












            $begingroup$

            Entropy is overloaded term. However, in thermodynamics, it has simple meanings.



            First, entropy of system is a quantity that depends only on the equilibrium state of that system. This is by definition; entropy is defined for a state. If the system is not in equilibrium state, it may or may not have an entropy. But if it is in equilibrium state, it does have entropy.



            The value of entropy for some state that we study does not tell us much. This value is rarely of practical interest.



            The reason we talk about entropy is often because it has interesting behaviour: if reversible process happens inside a closed thermally isolated system, entropy of the closed system remains constant, while if non-reversible process happens, its value increases (by how much cannot be universally stated, it may be negligible or huge, but it definitely cannot decrease). This is another way to state the 2nd law of thermodynamics.



            If you want to understand how this entropy is connected to things like order or information on the molecular level, you have to study statistical physics of molecules. In thermodynamics proper, there is nothing that would connect entropy to such things.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$














              Your Answer








              StackExchange.ready(function() {
              var channelOptions = {
              tags: "".split(" "),
              id: "151"
              };
              initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

              StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
              // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
              if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
              StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
              createEditor();
              });
              }
              else {
              createEditor();
              }
              });

              function createEditor() {
              StackExchange.prepareEditor({
              heartbeatType: 'answer',
              autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
              convertImagesToLinks: false,
              noModals: true,
              showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
              reputationToPostImages: null,
              bindNavPrevention: true,
              postfix: "",
              imageUploader: {
              brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
              contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
              allowUrls: true
              },
              noCode: true, onDemand: true,
              discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
              ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
              });


              }
              });














              draft saved

              draft discarded


















              StackExchange.ready(
              function () {
              StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fphysics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f474020%2ftrying-to-understand-entropy-as-a-novice-in-thermodynamics%23new-answer', 'question_page');
              }
              );

              Post as a guest















              Required, but never shown

























              2 Answers
              2






              active

              oldest

              votes








              2 Answers
              2






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes









              2












              $begingroup$

              This is a big topic with many aspects but let me start with the reason why entropy and the second law was needed.



              You know the first law is conservation of energy. If a hot body is placed in contact with a cold body heat normally flows from the hot body to the cold . Energy lost by the hot body equals energy gained by the cold body. Energy is conserved and the first law obeyed.



              But that law would also be satisfied if the same amount of heat flowed in the other direction. However one never sees that happen naturally (without doing work). What is more after transferring heat from hot to cold you would not expect it to spontaneously reverse itself. The process is irreversible.



              The second law and the property of entropy was developed to show how that cannot happen.



              ADDENDUM:



              Found a little more time to bring this to the next level. This will tie in what I said above to the actual second law and the property of entropy.



              So we needed a new law and property that would be violated if heat flowed naturally from a cold body to a hot body. The property is called entropy, $S$, which obeys the following inequality:



              $$Delta S_{tot}=Delta S_{sys}+Delta S_{surr}≥0$$



              Where $Delta S_{tot}$ is the total entropy change of the system plus the surrounding (entropy change of the universe) for any process where the system and surroundings interact. The equality applies if the process is reversible, and the inequality if it is irreversible. Since all real processes are irreversible (explained below), the law tells us that the total entropy of the universe increases as a result of a real process.



              The property of entropy is defined as



              $$dS=frac {dQ_{rev}}{T}$$



              where $dQ$ is a reversible differential transfer of heat and $T$ is the temperature at which it is transferred. Although it I defined for a reversible transfer of heat, it applies to any process between two states. If the process occurs at constant temperature, we can say



              $$Delta S=frac{Q}{T}$$



              where Q is the heat transferred to the system at constant temperature.



              We apply this new law to our hot and cold bodies and call them bodies A and B. To make things simple, we stipulate that the bodies are massive enough (or the amount of heat Q transferred small enough) that their temperatures stay constant during the heat transfer Applying the second law to our bodies:



              $$Delta S_{tot}=frac{-Q}{T_A}+frac{+Q}{T_B}$$



              The minus sign for body A simply means the entropy decrease for that body because heat is transferred out, and the positive sign for body B means its entropy has increased because heat is transferred in.



              From the equation, we observe that for all $T_{A}>T_{B}$, $Delta S_{tot}>0$. We further note that as the two temperatures get closer and closer to each other, $Delta S_{tot}$ goes to 0. But if $T_{A}<T_{B}$ meaning heat transfers from the cold body to the hot body, $Delta S$ would be less than zero, violating the second law. Thus the second law precludes that natural transfer of heat from a cold body to a hot body.



              Note that for $Delta S_{tot}=0$ the temperatures would have to be equal. But we know that heat will not flow unless there is a temperature difference. So we see that for all real heat transfer processes, such processes are irreversible.



              Irreversibility and entropy increase is not limited to heat transfer processes. Any process goes from a state of disequilibrium to equilibrium. Beside heat, you have processes involving pressure differentials (pressure disequilibrium). These process are also irreversible and generate entropy.



              Hope this helps.






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$


















                2












                $begingroup$

                This is a big topic with many aspects but let me start with the reason why entropy and the second law was needed.



                You know the first law is conservation of energy. If a hot body is placed in contact with a cold body heat normally flows from the hot body to the cold . Energy lost by the hot body equals energy gained by the cold body. Energy is conserved and the first law obeyed.



                But that law would also be satisfied if the same amount of heat flowed in the other direction. However one never sees that happen naturally (without doing work). What is more after transferring heat from hot to cold you would not expect it to spontaneously reverse itself. The process is irreversible.



                The second law and the property of entropy was developed to show how that cannot happen.



                ADDENDUM:



                Found a little more time to bring this to the next level. This will tie in what I said above to the actual second law and the property of entropy.



                So we needed a new law and property that would be violated if heat flowed naturally from a cold body to a hot body. The property is called entropy, $S$, which obeys the following inequality:



                $$Delta S_{tot}=Delta S_{sys}+Delta S_{surr}≥0$$



                Where $Delta S_{tot}$ is the total entropy change of the system plus the surrounding (entropy change of the universe) for any process where the system and surroundings interact. The equality applies if the process is reversible, and the inequality if it is irreversible. Since all real processes are irreversible (explained below), the law tells us that the total entropy of the universe increases as a result of a real process.



                The property of entropy is defined as



                $$dS=frac {dQ_{rev}}{T}$$



                where $dQ$ is a reversible differential transfer of heat and $T$ is the temperature at which it is transferred. Although it I defined for a reversible transfer of heat, it applies to any process between two states. If the process occurs at constant temperature, we can say



                $$Delta S=frac{Q}{T}$$



                where Q is the heat transferred to the system at constant temperature.



                We apply this new law to our hot and cold bodies and call them bodies A and B. To make things simple, we stipulate that the bodies are massive enough (or the amount of heat Q transferred small enough) that their temperatures stay constant during the heat transfer Applying the second law to our bodies:



                $$Delta S_{tot}=frac{-Q}{T_A}+frac{+Q}{T_B}$$



                The minus sign for body A simply means the entropy decrease for that body because heat is transferred out, and the positive sign for body B means its entropy has increased because heat is transferred in.



                From the equation, we observe that for all $T_{A}>T_{B}$, $Delta S_{tot}>0$. We further note that as the two temperatures get closer and closer to each other, $Delta S_{tot}$ goes to 0. But if $T_{A}<T_{B}$ meaning heat transfers from the cold body to the hot body, $Delta S$ would be less than zero, violating the second law. Thus the second law precludes that natural transfer of heat from a cold body to a hot body.



                Note that for $Delta S_{tot}=0$ the temperatures would have to be equal. But we know that heat will not flow unless there is a temperature difference. So we see that for all real heat transfer processes, such processes are irreversible.



                Irreversibility and entropy increase is not limited to heat transfer processes. Any process goes from a state of disequilibrium to equilibrium. Beside heat, you have processes involving pressure differentials (pressure disequilibrium). These process are also irreversible and generate entropy.



                Hope this helps.






                share|cite|improve this answer











                $endgroup$
















                  2












                  2








                  2





                  $begingroup$

                  This is a big topic with many aspects but let me start with the reason why entropy and the second law was needed.



                  You know the first law is conservation of energy. If a hot body is placed in contact with a cold body heat normally flows from the hot body to the cold . Energy lost by the hot body equals energy gained by the cold body. Energy is conserved and the first law obeyed.



                  But that law would also be satisfied if the same amount of heat flowed in the other direction. However one never sees that happen naturally (without doing work). What is more after transferring heat from hot to cold you would not expect it to spontaneously reverse itself. The process is irreversible.



                  The second law and the property of entropy was developed to show how that cannot happen.



                  ADDENDUM:



                  Found a little more time to bring this to the next level. This will tie in what I said above to the actual second law and the property of entropy.



                  So we needed a new law and property that would be violated if heat flowed naturally from a cold body to a hot body. The property is called entropy, $S$, which obeys the following inequality:



                  $$Delta S_{tot}=Delta S_{sys}+Delta S_{surr}≥0$$



                  Where $Delta S_{tot}$ is the total entropy change of the system plus the surrounding (entropy change of the universe) for any process where the system and surroundings interact. The equality applies if the process is reversible, and the inequality if it is irreversible. Since all real processes are irreversible (explained below), the law tells us that the total entropy of the universe increases as a result of a real process.



                  The property of entropy is defined as



                  $$dS=frac {dQ_{rev}}{T}$$



                  where $dQ$ is a reversible differential transfer of heat and $T$ is the temperature at which it is transferred. Although it I defined for a reversible transfer of heat, it applies to any process between two states. If the process occurs at constant temperature, we can say



                  $$Delta S=frac{Q}{T}$$



                  where Q is the heat transferred to the system at constant temperature.



                  We apply this new law to our hot and cold bodies and call them bodies A and B. To make things simple, we stipulate that the bodies are massive enough (or the amount of heat Q transferred small enough) that their temperatures stay constant during the heat transfer Applying the second law to our bodies:



                  $$Delta S_{tot}=frac{-Q}{T_A}+frac{+Q}{T_B}$$



                  The minus sign for body A simply means the entropy decrease for that body because heat is transferred out, and the positive sign for body B means its entropy has increased because heat is transferred in.



                  From the equation, we observe that for all $T_{A}>T_{B}$, $Delta S_{tot}>0$. We further note that as the two temperatures get closer and closer to each other, $Delta S_{tot}$ goes to 0. But if $T_{A}<T_{B}$ meaning heat transfers from the cold body to the hot body, $Delta S$ would be less than zero, violating the second law. Thus the second law precludes that natural transfer of heat from a cold body to a hot body.



                  Note that for $Delta S_{tot}=0$ the temperatures would have to be equal. But we know that heat will not flow unless there is a temperature difference. So we see that for all real heat transfer processes, such processes are irreversible.



                  Irreversibility and entropy increase is not limited to heat transfer processes. Any process goes from a state of disequilibrium to equilibrium. Beside heat, you have processes involving pressure differentials (pressure disequilibrium). These process are also irreversible and generate entropy.



                  Hope this helps.






                  share|cite|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  This is a big topic with many aspects but let me start with the reason why entropy and the second law was needed.



                  You know the first law is conservation of energy. If a hot body is placed in contact with a cold body heat normally flows from the hot body to the cold . Energy lost by the hot body equals energy gained by the cold body. Energy is conserved and the first law obeyed.



                  But that law would also be satisfied if the same amount of heat flowed in the other direction. However one never sees that happen naturally (without doing work). What is more after transferring heat from hot to cold you would not expect it to spontaneously reverse itself. The process is irreversible.



                  The second law and the property of entropy was developed to show how that cannot happen.



                  ADDENDUM:



                  Found a little more time to bring this to the next level. This will tie in what I said above to the actual second law and the property of entropy.



                  So we needed a new law and property that would be violated if heat flowed naturally from a cold body to a hot body. The property is called entropy, $S$, which obeys the following inequality:



                  $$Delta S_{tot}=Delta S_{sys}+Delta S_{surr}≥0$$



                  Where $Delta S_{tot}$ is the total entropy change of the system plus the surrounding (entropy change of the universe) for any process where the system and surroundings interact. The equality applies if the process is reversible, and the inequality if it is irreversible. Since all real processes are irreversible (explained below), the law tells us that the total entropy of the universe increases as a result of a real process.



                  The property of entropy is defined as



                  $$dS=frac {dQ_{rev}}{T}$$



                  where $dQ$ is a reversible differential transfer of heat and $T$ is the temperature at which it is transferred. Although it I defined for a reversible transfer of heat, it applies to any process between two states. If the process occurs at constant temperature, we can say



                  $$Delta S=frac{Q}{T}$$



                  where Q is the heat transferred to the system at constant temperature.



                  We apply this new law to our hot and cold bodies and call them bodies A and B. To make things simple, we stipulate that the bodies are massive enough (or the amount of heat Q transferred small enough) that their temperatures stay constant during the heat transfer Applying the second law to our bodies:



                  $$Delta S_{tot}=frac{-Q}{T_A}+frac{+Q}{T_B}$$



                  The minus sign for body A simply means the entropy decrease for that body because heat is transferred out, and the positive sign for body B means its entropy has increased because heat is transferred in.



                  From the equation, we observe that for all $T_{A}>T_{B}$, $Delta S_{tot}>0$. We further note that as the two temperatures get closer and closer to each other, $Delta S_{tot}$ goes to 0. But if $T_{A}<T_{B}$ meaning heat transfers from the cold body to the hot body, $Delta S$ would be less than zero, violating the second law. Thus the second law precludes that natural transfer of heat from a cold body to a hot body.



                  Note that for $Delta S_{tot}=0$ the temperatures would have to be equal. But we know that heat will not flow unless there is a temperature difference. So we see that for all real heat transfer processes, such processes are irreversible.



                  Irreversibility and entropy increase is not limited to heat transfer processes. Any process goes from a state of disequilibrium to equilibrium. Beside heat, you have processes involving pressure differentials (pressure disequilibrium). These process are also irreversible and generate entropy.



                  Hope this helps.







                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer








                  edited 20 mins ago

























                  answered 1 hour ago









                  Bob DBob D

                  4,7802318




                  4,7802318























                      1












                      $begingroup$

                      Entropy is overloaded term. However, in thermodynamics, it has simple meanings.



                      First, entropy of system is a quantity that depends only on the equilibrium state of that system. This is by definition; entropy is defined for a state. If the system is not in equilibrium state, it may or may not have an entropy. But if it is in equilibrium state, it does have entropy.



                      The value of entropy for some state that we study does not tell us much. This value is rarely of practical interest.



                      The reason we talk about entropy is often because it has interesting behaviour: if reversible process happens inside a closed thermally isolated system, entropy of the closed system remains constant, while if non-reversible process happens, its value increases (by how much cannot be universally stated, it may be negligible or huge, but it definitely cannot decrease). This is another way to state the 2nd law of thermodynamics.



                      If you want to understand how this entropy is connected to things like order or information on the molecular level, you have to study statistical physics of molecules. In thermodynamics proper, there is nothing that would connect entropy to such things.






                      share|cite|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$


















                        1












                        $begingroup$

                        Entropy is overloaded term. However, in thermodynamics, it has simple meanings.



                        First, entropy of system is a quantity that depends only on the equilibrium state of that system. This is by definition; entropy is defined for a state. If the system is not in equilibrium state, it may or may not have an entropy. But if it is in equilibrium state, it does have entropy.



                        The value of entropy for some state that we study does not tell us much. This value is rarely of practical interest.



                        The reason we talk about entropy is often because it has interesting behaviour: if reversible process happens inside a closed thermally isolated system, entropy of the closed system remains constant, while if non-reversible process happens, its value increases (by how much cannot be universally stated, it may be negligible or huge, but it definitely cannot decrease). This is another way to state the 2nd law of thermodynamics.



                        If you want to understand how this entropy is connected to things like order or information on the molecular level, you have to study statistical physics of molecules. In thermodynamics proper, there is nothing that would connect entropy to such things.






                        share|cite|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$
















                          1












                          1








                          1





                          $begingroup$

                          Entropy is overloaded term. However, in thermodynamics, it has simple meanings.



                          First, entropy of system is a quantity that depends only on the equilibrium state of that system. This is by definition; entropy is defined for a state. If the system is not in equilibrium state, it may or may not have an entropy. But if it is in equilibrium state, it does have entropy.



                          The value of entropy for some state that we study does not tell us much. This value is rarely of practical interest.



                          The reason we talk about entropy is often because it has interesting behaviour: if reversible process happens inside a closed thermally isolated system, entropy of the closed system remains constant, while if non-reversible process happens, its value increases (by how much cannot be universally stated, it may be negligible or huge, but it definitely cannot decrease). This is another way to state the 2nd law of thermodynamics.



                          If you want to understand how this entropy is connected to things like order or information on the molecular level, you have to study statistical physics of molecules. In thermodynamics proper, there is nothing that would connect entropy to such things.






                          share|cite|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$



                          Entropy is overloaded term. However, in thermodynamics, it has simple meanings.



                          First, entropy of system is a quantity that depends only on the equilibrium state of that system. This is by definition; entropy is defined for a state. If the system is not in equilibrium state, it may or may not have an entropy. But if it is in equilibrium state, it does have entropy.



                          The value of entropy for some state that we study does not tell us much. This value is rarely of practical interest.



                          The reason we talk about entropy is often because it has interesting behaviour: if reversible process happens inside a closed thermally isolated system, entropy of the closed system remains constant, while if non-reversible process happens, its value increases (by how much cannot be universally stated, it may be negligible or huge, but it definitely cannot decrease). This is another way to state the 2nd law of thermodynamics.



                          If you want to understand how this entropy is connected to things like order or information on the molecular level, you have to study statistical physics of molecules. In thermodynamics proper, there is nothing that would connect entropy to such things.







                          share|cite|improve this answer












                          share|cite|improve this answer



                          share|cite|improve this answer










                          answered 43 mins ago









                          Ján LalinskýJán Lalinský

                          15.9k1439




                          15.9k1439






























                              draft saved

                              draft discarded




















































                              Thanks for contributing an answer to Physics Stack Exchange!


                              • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                              But avoid



                              • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                              • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                              Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                              To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                              draft saved


                              draft discarded














                              StackExchange.ready(
                              function () {
                              StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fphysics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f474020%2ftrying-to-understand-entropy-as-a-novice-in-thermodynamics%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                              }
                              );

                              Post as a guest















                              Required, but never shown





















































                              Required, but never shown














                              Required, but never shown












                              Required, but never shown







                              Required, but never shown

































                              Required, but never shown














                              Required, but never shown












                              Required, but never shown







                              Required, but never shown







                              Popular posts from this blog

                              What is the “three and three hundred thousand syndrome”?Who wrote the book Arena?What five creatures were...

                              Gersau Kjelder | Navigasjonsmeny46°59′0″N 8°31′0″E46°59′0″N...

                              Hestehale Innhaldsliste Hestehale på kvinner | Hestehale på menn | Galleri | Sjå òg |...