Did anyone wonder why there was one planet fewer before beaming down to Ceti Alpha V/VI?Why did Ceti Alpha VI...
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Did anyone wonder why there was one planet fewer before beaming down to Ceti Alpha V/VI?
Why did Ceti Alpha VI explode?Why did no one notice Geordi's transmission?Why was it acceptable to provide the alternative timeline with trans-warp beaming equations/formula?Why did Lal look the way zhe did before completion?In the Battle of Wolf 359, one ship survives. Which one was it and why did it survive?Why did Ceti Alpha VI explode?Why did Picard describe the past as “the past” when he was actually there?Why did they have such difficulty figuring out if one of the crewmen was a changeling?How fast did the Enterprise travel in Where No-One Has Gone Before?Why was there a motorcycle on the USS Franklin?In which episodes did the Enterprise boldly go where no one had gone before?
In Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (the one from 1982, not the recent remake), Khan yells "This is Ceti Alpha V!" and they're all like this is a big surprise, we didn't know.
If they had previously charted the planet, wouldn't the computer have told them the planets weren't quite where they should be based on earlier visits? I mean, we can predict the next hundred transits of Venus, shouldn't 23rd century explorers be able to predict where the Ceti planets are less than twenty years after their first visit?
star-trek the-wrath-of-khan
add a comment |
In Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (the one from 1982, not the recent remake), Khan yells "This is Ceti Alpha V!" and they're all like this is a big surprise, we didn't know.
If they had previously charted the planet, wouldn't the computer have told them the planets weren't quite where they should be based on earlier visits? I mean, we can predict the next hundred transits of Venus, shouldn't 23rd century explorers be able to predict where the Ceti planets are less than twenty years after their first visit?
star-trek the-wrath-of-khan
5
It's a definite plot-hole, that's for sure. I've always thought so myself. I think the best explanation is that the destruction of Ceti Alpha VI altered the orbit of Ceti Alpha V to the point where it occupied (roughly) the same space as Ceti Alpha VI would have, and Starfleet approached the system from a direction which would normally have obscured Ceti Alpha V - such as approaching from the opposite side of the sun - and therefore got a little careless.
– James Sheridan
Aug 5 '14 at 3:30
add a comment |
In Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (the one from 1982, not the recent remake), Khan yells "This is Ceti Alpha V!" and they're all like this is a big surprise, we didn't know.
If they had previously charted the planet, wouldn't the computer have told them the planets weren't quite where they should be based on earlier visits? I mean, we can predict the next hundred transits of Venus, shouldn't 23rd century explorers be able to predict where the Ceti planets are less than twenty years after their first visit?
star-trek the-wrath-of-khan
In Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (the one from 1982, not the recent remake), Khan yells "This is Ceti Alpha V!" and they're all like this is a big surprise, we didn't know.
If they had previously charted the planet, wouldn't the computer have told them the planets weren't quite where they should be based on earlier visits? I mean, we can predict the next hundred transits of Venus, shouldn't 23rd century explorers be able to predict where the Ceti planets are less than twenty years after their first visit?
star-trek the-wrath-of-khan
star-trek the-wrath-of-khan
edited Apr 30 '17 at 13:42
Valorum
412k11130023223
412k11130023223
asked Aug 5 '14 at 2:40
Robert SoupeRobert Soupe
4531612
4531612
5
It's a definite plot-hole, that's for sure. I've always thought so myself. I think the best explanation is that the destruction of Ceti Alpha VI altered the orbit of Ceti Alpha V to the point where it occupied (roughly) the same space as Ceti Alpha VI would have, and Starfleet approached the system from a direction which would normally have obscured Ceti Alpha V - such as approaching from the opposite side of the sun - and therefore got a little careless.
– James Sheridan
Aug 5 '14 at 3:30
add a comment |
5
It's a definite plot-hole, that's for sure. I've always thought so myself. I think the best explanation is that the destruction of Ceti Alpha VI altered the orbit of Ceti Alpha V to the point where it occupied (roughly) the same space as Ceti Alpha VI would have, and Starfleet approached the system from a direction which would normally have obscured Ceti Alpha V - such as approaching from the opposite side of the sun - and therefore got a little careless.
– James Sheridan
Aug 5 '14 at 3:30
5
5
It's a definite plot-hole, that's for sure. I've always thought so myself. I think the best explanation is that the destruction of Ceti Alpha VI altered the orbit of Ceti Alpha V to the point where it occupied (roughly) the same space as Ceti Alpha VI would have, and Starfleet approached the system from a direction which would normally have obscured Ceti Alpha V - such as approaching from the opposite side of the sun - and therefore got a little careless.
– James Sheridan
Aug 5 '14 at 3:30
It's a definite plot-hole, that's for sure. I've always thought so myself. I think the best explanation is that the destruction of Ceti Alpha VI altered the orbit of Ceti Alpha V to the point where it occupied (roughly) the same space as Ceti Alpha VI would have, and Starfleet approached the system from a direction which would normally have obscured Ceti Alpha V - such as approaching from the opposite side of the sun - and therefore got a little careless.
– James Sheridan
Aug 5 '14 at 3:30
add a comment |
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
This is explained in the original script and the novelisation;
It was a pretty unusual star system to begin with. Ceti Alpha V and Ceti Alpha VI rotate around each other in a shared orbit. Some instability would be expected.
The shock of Ceti Alpha VI exploding moved the main planet out of alignment so the charts would be inaccurate in any case (see below)
In order to prevent Khan from being released, the planetary charts were deliberately erased.
KHAN: This is Ceti Alpha V ! Ceti Alpha VI exploded six months after we
were left here. The shock shifted the orbit of this planet and
everything was laid waste. Admiral Kirk never bothered to check on
our progress. It was only the fact of my genetically engineered
intellect that enabled us to survive!
On earth, two hundred years ago, I was a prince, with power over
millions -- now, like Prometheus I have been left by Admiral Kirk to
digest my own entrails. - Movie Script
and
"You lie!" Chekov shouted. "I saw the world we left you on! It was beautiful; it was like a garden—flowers, fruit trees, streams … and its moon!" Chekov remembered the moon most clearly, an enormous silver globe hanging over the land, ten times the size of the moon on Earth, for Captain Kirk had left Khan and his followers on one of a pair of worlds, a twin system in which planet and satellite were of a size. But one was living, the other lifeless.
"Yes," Khan said, in a rough whisper. "Alpha Ceti V was that, for a while."
Chekov gasped. "Alpha Ceti V !" The name came back, and all the pieces fell into place: no official records, for fear Khan Singh would free himself again; the discrepancies between the probe records and the data Reliant collected. Now, too late, Chekov understood why he had lived the last few days under an increasing pall of dread. - Star Trek II: The Official Novelisation
The novelization is technically not canon, so I appreciate your looking in there for an explanation.
– Robert Soupe
May 17 '15 at 20:57
3
@RobertSoupe - The novelisations aren't canon, but they were written in consultation with the film's writers. That makes them a cut above mere guesswork.
– Valorum
May 17 '15 at 21:17
Richard - If Ceti Alpha VI was a moon or a twin planet of Ceti Alpha V, Reliant should have noticed that Ceti Alpha V was missing when they neared what they thought was Ceti Alpha VI. And if Kirk & Co erased all knowledge of Ceti Alpha V, Kirk should expect the next ship (Reliant) to see an unlisted planet. And for Reliant to still expect there was a Ceti Alpha VI in the orbit of Ceti Alpha VI, Kirk must have created a false record of some inner planet in the system, which Kirk should expect to be noted as missing when the next ship (Reliant) entered the system.
– M. A. Golding
Jun 20 '15 at 6:44
@m.a.golding - This is assuming Kirk created a fake record rather than simply wiping the whole thing. On top of that, I guess it takes more than a trivial scan of the system to make sense of all of the planetary orbits.
– Valorum
Jun 20 '15 at 7:42
add a comment |
We in the 21st Century care about ephemeris data because our current spaceships move among the planets using Hohmann transfer orbits. We need to know where the planets are going to be so we know when to launch. We need to know how fast the planet is moving in its orbit so we know how much propellant to carry to produce the delta-vee needed to get there. We need to know these things because if we don't the ship will miss its target, run out of fuel and then everybody dies.
A 23rd Century starship with antimatter-fueled faster-than-light maneuvering and FTL sensing capability doesn't need to keep track of that kind of detail. They arrive in the system, scan for the planets, find one in roughly the right orbit and with matching surface characteristics and then drive straight toward it. Reliant arrived looking specifically for a barren lifeless planet roughly X million kilometers from the star and they found one. It's sloppy navigation work by our standards, but we don't live in a world where space navigation is as easy as guiding a ship from continent to continent with GPS.
4
Could it be because piloting a starship is significantly more difficult than other activities (such as dusting crops, for example)?
– Valorum
Aug 5 '14 at 6:32
It's sloppy navigation work by our standards - So you mean the Reliant's crew was too reliant in that point? ;) It's still a bit odd, considering other episodes/movies where it's obviously pretty much standard to scan a system after arrival. However, at the same time we don't know how complex that system would have been. It's easy to notice pretty fast whether there are 6 or 7 planets, but if you're talking about 20+ it might get quite a bit more complicated.
– Mario
Aug 5 '14 at 7:03
@Mario: While at the time of production of TWOK, the producers may not have had any idea of that yet, 20+ is not any more complicated than 6 or 7 for a computer to distinguish.
– O. R. Mapper
Aug 5 '14 at 7:15
2
I think this is just your typical TOS sending your ship's senior officers down to the planet nowhere close to fully informed. In Star Trek: First Contact, they're measuring space dust and radiation spikes per cubic meter. Surely in Wrath of Khan they would at least be aware of a whole planet not being where it's supposed to be. A TNG era captain would probably have had a meeting in the ship's conference room and someone would have mentioned the missing planet.
– Alonso del Arte
Aug 5 '14 at 13:47
4
The planet was where Ceti Alpha VI should have been, not where it belonged as Ceti Alpha V. Its orbit had shifted and it could easily have been mistaken as Ceti Alpha VI if they were only judging by its orbit. Of course, all the other aspects would be wrong, like size, orbital speed, geography, and so forth. It was a science vessel. You'd think someone on board would actually be a scientist and notice.
– BBlake
Aug 5 '14 at 16:13
|
show 1 more comment
They reasonably thought they were on Ceti Alpha VI because that had been it's orbit. Space is a very large and busy place so obviously Stellar Cartography is kept very busy.
A single planet taking another's place in orbit in a remote solar system could be easily missed.
It's possible also that the star chart could have mistakenly logged the surviving planet as Ceti Alpha VI and removed Ceti Alpha V as being destroyed. No one had been back to confirm this apparent fact since Khan and company had been placed there. They obviously had no idea that it was in fact Ceti Alpha VI that had been destroyed and it's orbit taken over by Ceti Alpha V. Who knew? Thinking that Ceti Alpha V was destroyed is reasonable due to it missing from it's orbit.
The kind of planetary 'musical chairs' that occurred is obviously very rare so their surprise by such an unusual/rare occurrence would be a reasonable reaction.
Chekov though, being there firsthand when Khan was marooned, was quick to put 2 and 2 together and recognized their danger after seeing the ship's name, 'Botany Bay'.
1
Blake's comment on Kyle's answer brings up a couple of very good points. Maybe a Klingon crew wouldn't care about this sort of thing, but a Starfleet science vessel? As for Chekov "being there firsthand when Khan was marooned", that's a whole can of worms for another day.
– Robert Soupe
Aug 6 '14 at 3:38
add a comment |
Given the sensors reported:
CHEKOV: "Does it have to be completely lifeless?"
TERRELL: "Don't tell me you've found something."
CHEKOV: "We've picked up a minor energy flux reading on one dynoscanner."
TERRELL: "Damn! Are you sure? Maybe the scanner's out of adjustment."
CHEKOV: "I suppose it could be a particle of preanimate matter caught in the matrix."
And seem to overlook Khan, his merry men and Ceti Alpha Five's only remaining indigenous lifeform. I would say there sensors are more than slightly 'out of adjustment' and they're lucky to know what side of the galaxy there on, much less how many planets are in the system.
We could chalk up the problem to equipment malfunction.
add a comment |
The thing that I just realized is that Kirk MUST HAVE known what had happened to Ceti Alpha V and VI by the time Khan was discovered by Chekov and Terrell.
If you go through the transcripts of 'Wrath of Khan', somehow Kirk knows what Khan 'blames him for', before Chekov or Terrell or anyone else has a chance to explain things. It really is as if Kirk is not too surprised about Khan's vengeful rage.
I think Kirk knew what had happened during Khan's exile, and decided to cover it up and let it go.
1
Okay, but how does this answer the question, though?
– Null♦
Mar 11 '16 at 2:51
Nonetheless a reason to rewatch this classic.
– Robert Soupe
Mar 11 '16 at 16:50
add a comment |
As a kid watching ST2 I always assumed Dr. Carrol Marcus or the Son gave Reliant wrong star chart info. Heck the Son was already doing things wrong by Starfleet's books. Sure it's a Federation ship, but looking at planets that Dr. Marcus has hand picked out. To me that was just odd.
Still a great movie. Every Star Trek movie has flaws, but with that said IMO I love rewatching ST2 and ST3 the most. Star Trek 5 I also love to watch but more as a funny drinking game type movie. Part 1 is awesome right up to the point of the 3 Klingon Battlecruisers getting destroyed. After that eject and pop in ST3 for some real space exploration. Pop in ST2 if you want updated version of Balance of Terror type action TOS episode
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6 Answers
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active
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votes
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
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votes
This is explained in the original script and the novelisation;
It was a pretty unusual star system to begin with. Ceti Alpha V and Ceti Alpha VI rotate around each other in a shared orbit. Some instability would be expected.
The shock of Ceti Alpha VI exploding moved the main planet out of alignment so the charts would be inaccurate in any case (see below)
In order to prevent Khan from being released, the planetary charts were deliberately erased.
KHAN: This is Ceti Alpha V ! Ceti Alpha VI exploded six months after we
were left here. The shock shifted the orbit of this planet and
everything was laid waste. Admiral Kirk never bothered to check on
our progress. It was only the fact of my genetically engineered
intellect that enabled us to survive!
On earth, two hundred years ago, I was a prince, with power over
millions -- now, like Prometheus I have been left by Admiral Kirk to
digest my own entrails. - Movie Script
and
"You lie!" Chekov shouted. "I saw the world we left you on! It was beautiful; it was like a garden—flowers, fruit trees, streams … and its moon!" Chekov remembered the moon most clearly, an enormous silver globe hanging over the land, ten times the size of the moon on Earth, for Captain Kirk had left Khan and his followers on one of a pair of worlds, a twin system in which planet and satellite were of a size. But one was living, the other lifeless.
"Yes," Khan said, in a rough whisper. "Alpha Ceti V was that, for a while."
Chekov gasped. "Alpha Ceti V !" The name came back, and all the pieces fell into place: no official records, for fear Khan Singh would free himself again; the discrepancies between the probe records and the data Reliant collected. Now, too late, Chekov understood why he had lived the last few days under an increasing pall of dread. - Star Trek II: The Official Novelisation
The novelization is technically not canon, so I appreciate your looking in there for an explanation.
– Robert Soupe
May 17 '15 at 20:57
3
@RobertSoupe - The novelisations aren't canon, but they were written in consultation with the film's writers. That makes them a cut above mere guesswork.
– Valorum
May 17 '15 at 21:17
Richard - If Ceti Alpha VI was a moon or a twin planet of Ceti Alpha V, Reliant should have noticed that Ceti Alpha V was missing when they neared what they thought was Ceti Alpha VI. And if Kirk & Co erased all knowledge of Ceti Alpha V, Kirk should expect the next ship (Reliant) to see an unlisted planet. And for Reliant to still expect there was a Ceti Alpha VI in the orbit of Ceti Alpha VI, Kirk must have created a false record of some inner planet in the system, which Kirk should expect to be noted as missing when the next ship (Reliant) entered the system.
– M. A. Golding
Jun 20 '15 at 6:44
@m.a.golding - This is assuming Kirk created a fake record rather than simply wiping the whole thing. On top of that, I guess it takes more than a trivial scan of the system to make sense of all of the planetary orbits.
– Valorum
Jun 20 '15 at 7:42
add a comment |
This is explained in the original script and the novelisation;
It was a pretty unusual star system to begin with. Ceti Alpha V and Ceti Alpha VI rotate around each other in a shared orbit. Some instability would be expected.
The shock of Ceti Alpha VI exploding moved the main planet out of alignment so the charts would be inaccurate in any case (see below)
In order to prevent Khan from being released, the planetary charts were deliberately erased.
KHAN: This is Ceti Alpha V ! Ceti Alpha VI exploded six months after we
were left here. The shock shifted the orbit of this planet and
everything was laid waste. Admiral Kirk never bothered to check on
our progress. It was only the fact of my genetically engineered
intellect that enabled us to survive!
On earth, two hundred years ago, I was a prince, with power over
millions -- now, like Prometheus I have been left by Admiral Kirk to
digest my own entrails. - Movie Script
and
"You lie!" Chekov shouted. "I saw the world we left you on! It was beautiful; it was like a garden—flowers, fruit trees, streams … and its moon!" Chekov remembered the moon most clearly, an enormous silver globe hanging over the land, ten times the size of the moon on Earth, for Captain Kirk had left Khan and his followers on one of a pair of worlds, a twin system in which planet and satellite were of a size. But one was living, the other lifeless.
"Yes," Khan said, in a rough whisper. "Alpha Ceti V was that, for a while."
Chekov gasped. "Alpha Ceti V !" The name came back, and all the pieces fell into place: no official records, for fear Khan Singh would free himself again; the discrepancies between the probe records and the data Reliant collected. Now, too late, Chekov understood why he had lived the last few days under an increasing pall of dread. - Star Trek II: The Official Novelisation
The novelization is technically not canon, so I appreciate your looking in there for an explanation.
– Robert Soupe
May 17 '15 at 20:57
3
@RobertSoupe - The novelisations aren't canon, but they were written in consultation with the film's writers. That makes them a cut above mere guesswork.
– Valorum
May 17 '15 at 21:17
Richard - If Ceti Alpha VI was a moon or a twin planet of Ceti Alpha V, Reliant should have noticed that Ceti Alpha V was missing when they neared what they thought was Ceti Alpha VI. And if Kirk & Co erased all knowledge of Ceti Alpha V, Kirk should expect the next ship (Reliant) to see an unlisted planet. And for Reliant to still expect there was a Ceti Alpha VI in the orbit of Ceti Alpha VI, Kirk must have created a false record of some inner planet in the system, which Kirk should expect to be noted as missing when the next ship (Reliant) entered the system.
– M. A. Golding
Jun 20 '15 at 6:44
@m.a.golding - This is assuming Kirk created a fake record rather than simply wiping the whole thing. On top of that, I guess it takes more than a trivial scan of the system to make sense of all of the planetary orbits.
– Valorum
Jun 20 '15 at 7:42
add a comment |
This is explained in the original script and the novelisation;
It was a pretty unusual star system to begin with. Ceti Alpha V and Ceti Alpha VI rotate around each other in a shared orbit. Some instability would be expected.
The shock of Ceti Alpha VI exploding moved the main planet out of alignment so the charts would be inaccurate in any case (see below)
In order to prevent Khan from being released, the planetary charts were deliberately erased.
KHAN: This is Ceti Alpha V ! Ceti Alpha VI exploded six months after we
were left here. The shock shifted the orbit of this planet and
everything was laid waste. Admiral Kirk never bothered to check on
our progress. It was only the fact of my genetically engineered
intellect that enabled us to survive!
On earth, two hundred years ago, I was a prince, with power over
millions -- now, like Prometheus I have been left by Admiral Kirk to
digest my own entrails. - Movie Script
and
"You lie!" Chekov shouted. "I saw the world we left you on! It was beautiful; it was like a garden—flowers, fruit trees, streams … and its moon!" Chekov remembered the moon most clearly, an enormous silver globe hanging over the land, ten times the size of the moon on Earth, for Captain Kirk had left Khan and his followers on one of a pair of worlds, a twin system in which planet and satellite were of a size. But one was living, the other lifeless.
"Yes," Khan said, in a rough whisper. "Alpha Ceti V was that, for a while."
Chekov gasped. "Alpha Ceti V !" The name came back, and all the pieces fell into place: no official records, for fear Khan Singh would free himself again; the discrepancies between the probe records and the data Reliant collected. Now, too late, Chekov understood why he had lived the last few days under an increasing pall of dread. - Star Trek II: The Official Novelisation
This is explained in the original script and the novelisation;
It was a pretty unusual star system to begin with. Ceti Alpha V and Ceti Alpha VI rotate around each other in a shared orbit. Some instability would be expected.
The shock of Ceti Alpha VI exploding moved the main planet out of alignment so the charts would be inaccurate in any case (see below)
In order to prevent Khan from being released, the planetary charts were deliberately erased.
KHAN: This is Ceti Alpha V ! Ceti Alpha VI exploded six months after we
were left here. The shock shifted the orbit of this planet and
everything was laid waste. Admiral Kirk never bothered to check on
our progress. It was only the fact of my genetically engineered
intellect that enabled us to survive!
On earth, two hundred years ago, I was a prince, with power over
millions -- now, like Prometheus I have been left by Admiral Kirk to
digest my own entrails. - Movie Script
and
"You lie!" Chekov shouted. "I saw the world we left you on! It was beautiful; it was like a garden—flowers, fruit trees, streams … and its moon!" Chekov remembered the moon most clearly, an enormous silver globe hanging over the land, ten times the size of the moon on Earth, for Captain Kirk had left Khan and his followers on one of a pair of worlds, a twin system in which planet and satellite were of a size. But one was living, the other lifeless.
"Yes," Khan said, in a rough whisper. "Alpha Ceti V was that, for a while."
Chekov gasped. "Alpha Ceti V !" The name came back, and all the pieces fell into place: no official records, for fear Khan Singh would free himself again; the discrepancies between the probe records and the data Reliant collected. Now, too late, Chekov understood why he had lived the last few days under an increasing pall of dread. - Star Trek II: The Official Novelisation
edited May 17 '15 at 21:20
answered May 17 '15 at 15:18
ValorumValorum
412k11130023223
412k11130023223
The novelization is technically not canon, so I appreciate your looking in there for an explanation.
– Robert Soupe
May 17 '15 at 20:57
3
@RobertSoupe - The novelisations aren't canon, but they were written in consultation with the film's writers. That makes them a cut above mere guesswork.
– Valorum
May 17 '15 at 21:17
Richard - If Ceti Alpha VI was a moon or a twin planet of Ceti Alpha V, Reliant should have noticed that Ceti Alpha V was missing when they neared what they thought was Ceti Alpha VI. And if Kirk & Co erased all knowledge of Ceti Alpha V, Kirk should expect the next ship (Reliant) to see an unlisted planet. And for Reliant to still expect there was a Ceti Alpha VI in the orbit of Ceti Alpha VI, Kirk must have created a false record of some inner planet in the system, which Kirk should expect to be noted as missing when the next ship (Reliant) entered the system.
– M. A. Golding
Jun 20 '15 at 6:44
@m.a.golding - This is assuming Kirk created a fake record rather than simply wiping the whole thing. On top of that, I guess it takes more than a trivial scan of the system to make sense of all of the planetary orbits.
– Valorum
Jun 20 '15 at 7:42
add a comment |
The novelization is technically not canon, so I appreciate your looking in there for an explanation.
– Robert Soupe
May 17 '15 at 20:57
3
@RobertSoupe - The novelisations aren't canon, but they were written in consultation with the film's writers. That makes them a cut above mere guesswork.
– Valorum
May 17 '15 at 21:17
Richard - If Ceti Alpha VI was a moon or a twin planet of Ceti Alpha V, Reliant should have noticed that Ceti Alpha V was missing when they neared what they thought was Ceti Alpha VI. And if Kirk & Co erased all knowledge of Ceti Alpha V, Kirk should expect the next ship (Reliant) to see an unlisted planet. And for Reliant to still expect there was a Ceti Alpha VI in the orbit of Ceti Alpha VI, Kirk must have created a false record of some inner planet in the system, which Kirk should expect to be noted as missing when the next ship (Reliant) entered the system.
– M. A. Golding
Jun 20 '15 at 6:44
@m.a.golding - This is assuming Kirk created a fake record rather than simply wiping the whole thing. On top of that, I guess it takes more than a trivial scan of the system to make sense of all of the planetary orbits.
– Valorum
Jun 20 '15 at 7:42
The novelization is technically not canon, so I appreciate your looking in there for an explanation.
– Robert Soupe
May 17 '15 at 20:57
The novelization is technically not canon, so I appreciate your looking in there for an explanation.
– Robert Soupe
May 17 '15 at 20:57
3
3
@RobertSoupe - The novelisations aren't canon, but they were written in consultation with the film's writers. That makes them a cut above mere guesswork.
– Valorum
May 17 '15 at 21:17
@RobertSoupe - The novelisations aren't canon, but they were written in consultation with the film's writers. That makes them a cut above mere guesswork.
– Valorum
May 17 '15 at 21:17
Richard - If Ceti Alpha VI was a moon or a twin planet of Ceti Alpha V, Reliant should have noticed that Ceti Alpha V was missing when they neared what they thought was Ceti Alpha VI. And if Kirk & Co erased all knowledge of Ceti Alpha V, Kirk should expect the next ship (Reliant) to see an unlisted planet. And for Reliant to still expect there was a Ceti Alpha VI in the orbit of Ceti Alpha VI, Kirk must have created a false record of some inner planet in the system, which Kirk should expect to be noted as missing when the next ship (Reliant) entered the system.
– M. A. Golding
Jun 20 '15 at 6:44
Richard - If Ceti Alpha VI was a moon or a twin planet of Ceti Alpha V, Reliant should have noticed that Ceti Alpha V was missing when they neared what they thought was Ceti Alpha VI. And if Kirk & Co erased all knowledge of Ceti Alpha V, Kirk should expect the next ship (Reliant) to see an unlisted planet. And for Reliant to still expect there was a Ceti Alpha VI in the orbit of Ceti Alpha VI, Kirk must have created a false record of some inner planet in the system, which Kirk should expect to be noted as missing when the next ship (Reliant) entered the system.
– M. A. Golding
Jun 20 '15 at 6:44
@m.a.golding - This is assuming Kirk created a fake record rather than simply wiping the whole thing. On top of that, I guess it takes more than a trivial scan of the system to make sense of all of the planetary orbits.
– Valorum
Jun 20 '15 at 7:42
@m.a.golding - This is assuming Kirk created a fake record rather than simply wiping the whole thing. On top of that, I guess it takes more than a trivial scan of the system to make sense of all of the planetary orbits.
– Valorum
Jun 20 '15 at 7:42
add a comment |
We in the 21st Century care about ephemeris data because our current spaceships move among the planets using Hohmann transfer orbits. We need to know where the planets are going to be so we know when to launch. We need to know how fast the planet is moving in its orbit so we know how much propellant to carry to produce the delta-vee needed to get there. We need to know these things because if we don't the ship will miss its target, run out of fuel and then everybody dies.
A 23rd Century starship with antimatter-fueled faster-than-light maneuvering and FTL sensing capability doesn't need to keep track of that kind of detail. They arrive in the system, scan for the planets, find one in roughly the right orbit and with matching surface characteristics and then drive straight toward it. Reliant arrived looking specifically for a barren lifeless planet roughly X million kilometers from the star and they found one. It's sloppy navigation work by our standards, but we don't live in a world where space navigation is as easy as guiding a ship from continent to continent with GPS.
4
Could it be because piloting a starship is significantly more difficult than other activities (such as dusting crops, for example)?
– Valorum
Aug 5 '14 at 6:32
It's sloppy navigation work by our standards - So you mean the Reliant's crew was too reliant in that point? ;) It's still a bit odd, considering other episodes/movies where it's obviously pretty much standard to scan a system after arrival. However, at the same time we don't know how complex that system would have been. It's easy to notice pretty fast whether there are 6 or 7 planets, but if you're talking about 20+ it might get quite a bit more complicated.
– Mario
Aug 5 '14 at 7:03
@Mario: While at the time of production of TWOK, the producers may not have had any idea of that yet, 20+ is not any more complicated than 6 or 7 for a computer to distinguish.
– O. R. Mapper
Aug 5 '14 at 7:15
2
I think this is just your typical TOS sending your ship's senior officers down to the planet nowhere close to fully informed. In Star Trek: First Contact, they're measuring space dust and radiation spikes per cubic meter. Surely in Wrath of Khan they would at least be aware of a whole planet not being where it's supposed to be. A TNG era captain would probably have had a meeting in the ship's conference room and someone would have mentioned the missing planet.
– Alonso del Arte
Aug 5 '14 at 13:47
4
The planet was where Ceti Alpha VI should have been, not where it belonged as Ceti Alpha V. Its orbit had shifted and it could easily have been mistaken as Ceti Alpha VI if they were only judging by its orbit. Of course, all the other aspects would be wrong, like size, orbital speed, geography, and so forth. It was a science vessel. You'd think someone on board would actually be a scientist and notice.
– BBlake
Aug 5 '14 at 16:13
|
show 1 more comment
We in the 21st Century care about ephemeris data because our current spaceships move among the planets using Hohmann transfer orbits. We need to know where the planets are going to be so we know when to launch. We need to know how fast the planet is moving in its orbit so we know how much propellant to carry to produce the delta-vee needed to get there. We need to know these things because if we don't the ship will miss its target, run out of fuel and then everybody dies.
A 23rd Century starship with antimatter-fueled faster-than-light maneuvering and FTL sensing capability doesn't need to keep track of that kind of detail. They arrive in the system, scan for the planets, find one in roughly the right orbit and with matching surface characteristics and then drive straight toward it. Reliant arrived looking specifically for a barren lifeless planet roughly X million kilometers from the star and they found one. It's sloppy navigation work by our standards, but we don't live in a world where space navigation is as easy as guiding a ship from continent to continent with GPS.
4
Could it be because piloting a starship is significantly more difficult than other activities (such as dusting crops, for example)?
– Valorum
Aug 5 '14 at 6:32
It's sloppy navigation work by our standards - So you mean the Reliant's crew was too reliant in that point? ;) It's still a bit odd, considering other episodes/movies where it's obviously pretty much standard to scan a system after arrival. However, at the same time we don't know how complex that system would have been. It's easy to notice pretty fast whether there are 6 or 7 planets, but if you're talking about 20+ it might get quite a bit more complicated.
– Mario
Aug 5 '14 at 7:03
@Mario: While at the time of production of TWOK, the producers may not have had any idea of that yet, 20+ is not any more complicated than 6 or 7 for a computer to distinguish.
– O. R. Mapper
Aug 5 '14 at 7:15
2
I think this is just your typical TOS sending your ship's senior officers down to the planet nowhere close to fully informed. In Star Trek: First Contact, they're measuring space dust and radiation spikes per cubic meter. Surely in Wrath of Khan they would at least be aware of a whole planet not being where it's supposed to be. A TNG era captain would probably have had a meeting in the ship's conference room and someone would have mentioned the missing planet.
– Alonso del Arte
Aug 5 '14 at 13:47
4
The planet was where Ceti Alpha VI should have been, not where it belonged as Ceti Alpha V. Its orbit had shifted and it could easily have been mistaken as Ceti Alpha VI if they were only judging by its orbit. Of course, all the other aspects would be wrong, like size, orbital speed, geography, and so forth. It was a science vessel. You'd think someone on board would actually be a scientist and notice.
– BBlake
Aug 5 '14 at 16:13
|
show 1 more comment
We in the 21st Century care about ephemeris data because our current spaceships move among the planets using Hohmann transfer orbits. We need to know where the planets are going to be so we know when to launch. We need to know how fast the planet is moving in its orbit so we know how much propellant to carry to produce the delta-vee needed to get there. We need to know these things because if we don't the ship will miss its target, run out of fuel and then everybody dies.
A 23rd Century starship with antimatter-fueled faster-than-light maneuvering and FTL sensing capability doesn't need to keep track of that kind of detail. They arrive in the system, scan for the planets, find one in roughly the right orbit and with matching surface characteristics and then drive straight toward it. Reliant arrived looking specifically for a barren lifeless planet roughly X million kilometers from the star and they found one. It's sloppy navigation work by our standards, but we don't live in a world where space navigation is as easy as guiding a ship from continent to continent with GPS.
We in the 21st Century care about ephemeris data because our current spaceships move among the planets using Hohmann transfer orbits. We need to know where the planets are going to be so we know when to launch. We need to know how fast the planet is moving in its orbit so we know how much propellant to carry to produce the delta-vee needed to get there. We need to know these things because if we don't the ship will miss its target, run out of fuel and then everybody dies.
A 23rd Century starship with antimatter-fueled faster-than-light maneuvering and FTL sensing capability doesn't need to keep track of that kind of detail. They arrive in the system, scan for the planets, find one in roughly the right orbit and with matching surface characteristics and then drive straight toward it. Reliant arrived looking specifically for a barren lifeless planet roughly X million kilometers from the star and they found one. It's sloppy navigation work by our standards, but we don't live in a world where space navigation is as easy as guiding a ship from continent to continent with GPS.
answered Aug 5 '14 at 3:55
Kyle JonesKyle Jones
46.5k11142222
46.5k11142222
4
Could it be because piloting a starship is significantly more difficult than other activities (such as dusting crops, for example)?
– Valorum
Aug 5 '14 at 6:32
It's sloppy navigation work by our standards - So you mean the Reliant's crew was too reliant in that point? ;) It's still a bit odd, considering other episodes/movies where it's obviously pretty much standard to scan a system after arrival. However, at the same time we don't know how complex that system would have been. It's easy to notice pretty fast whether there are 6 or 7 planets, but if you're talking about 20+ it might get quite a bit more complicated.
– Mario
Aug 5 '14 at 7:03
@Mario: While at the time of production of TWOK, the producers may not have had any idea of that yet, 20+ is not any more complicated than 6 or 7 for a computer to distinguish.
– O. R. Mapper
Aug 5 '14 at 7:15
2
I think this is just your typical TOS sending your ship's senior officers down to the planet nowhere close to fully informed. In Star Trek: First Contact, they're measuring space dust and radiation spikes per cubic meter. Surely in Wrath of Khan they would at least be aware of a whole planet not being where it's supposed to be. A TNG era captain would probably have had a meeting in the ship's conference room and someone would have mentioned the missing planet.
– Alonso del Arte
Aug 5 '14 at 13:47
4
The planet was where Ceti Alpha VI should have been, not where it belonged as Ceti Alpha V. Its orbit had shifted and it could easily have been mistaken as Ceti Alpha VI if they were only judging by its orbit. Of course, all the other aspects would be wrong, like size, orbital speed, geography, and so forth. It was a science vessel. You'd think someone on board would actually be a scientist and notice.
– BBlake
Aug 5 '14 at 16:13
|
show 1 more comment
4
Could it be because piloting a starship is significantly more difficult than other activities (such as dusting crops, for example)?
– Valorum
Aug 5 '14 at 6:32
It's sloppy navigation work by our standards - So you mean the Reliant's crew was too reliant in that point? ;) It's still a bit odd, considering other episodes/movies where it's obviously pretty much standard to scan a system after arrival. However, at the same time we don't know how complex that system would have been. It's easy to notice pretty fast whether there are 6 or 7 planets, but if you're talking about 20+ it might get quite a bit more complicated.
– Mario
Aug 5 '14 at 7:03
@Mario: While at the time of production of TWOK, the producers may not have had any idea of that yet, 20+ is not any more complicated than 6 or 7 for a computer to distinguish.
– O. R. Mapper
Aug 5 '14 at 7:15
2
I think this is just your typical TOS sending your ship's senior officers down to the planet nowhere close to fully informed. In Star Trek: First Contact, they're measuring space dust and radiation spikes per cubic meter. Surely in Wrath of Khan they would at least be aware of a whole planet not being where it's supposed to be. A TNG era captain would probably have had a meeting in the ship's conference room and someone would have mentioned the missing planet.
– Alonso del Arte
Aug 5 '14 at 13:47
4
The planet was where Ceti Alpha VI should have been, not where it belonged as Ceti Alpha V. Its orbit had shifted and it could easily have been mistaken as Ceti Alpha VI if they were only judging by its orbit. Of course, all the other aspects would be wrong, like size, orbital speed, geography, and so forth. It was a science vessel. You'd think someone on board would actually be a scientist and notice.
– BBlake
Aug 5 '14 at 16:13
4
4
Could it be because piloting a starship is significantly more difficult than other activities (such as dusting crops, for example)?
– Valorum
Aug 5 '14 at 6:32
Could it be because piloting a starship is significantly more difficult than other activities (such as dusting crops, for example)?
– Valorum
Aug 5 '14 at 6:32
It's sloppy navigation work by our standards - So you mean the Reliant's crew was too reliant in that point? ;) It's still a bit odd, considering other episodes/movies where it's obviously pretty much standard to scan a system after arrival. However, at the same time we don't know how complex that system would have been. It's easy to notice pretty fast whether there are 6 or 7 planets, but if you're talking about 20+ it might get quite a bit more complicated.
– Mario
Aug 5 '14 at 7:03
It's sloppy navigation work by our standards - So you mean the Reliant's crew was too reliant in that point? ;) It's still a bit odd, considering other episodes/movies where it's obviously pretty much standard to scan a system after arrival. However, at the same time we don't know how complex that system would have been. It's easy to notice pretty fast whether there are 6 or 7 planets, but if you're talking about 20+ it might get quite a bit more complicated.
– Mario
Aug 5 '14 at 7:03
@Mario: While at the time of production of TWOK, the producers may not have had any idea of that yet, 20+ is not any more complicated than 6 or 7 for a computer to distinguish.
– O. R. Mapper
Aug 5 '14 at 7:15
@Mario: While at the time of production of TWOK, the producers may not have had any idea of that yet, 20+ is not any more complicated than 6 or 7 for a computer to distinguish.
– O. R. Mapper
Aug 5 '14 at 7:15
2
2
I think this is just your typical TOS sending your ship's senior officers down to the planet nowhere close to fully informed. In Star Trek: First Contact, they're measuring space dust and radiation spikes per cubic meter. Surely in Wrath of Khan they would at least be aware of a whole planet not being where it's supposed to be. A TNG era captain would probably have had a meeting in the ship's conference room and someone would have mentioned the missing planet.
– Alonso del Arte
Aug 5 '14 at 13:47
I think this is just your typical TOS sending your ship's senior officers down to the planet nowhere close to fully informed. In Star Trek: First Contact, they're measuring space dust and radiation spikes per cubic meter. Surely in Wrath of Khan they would at least be aware of a whole planet not being where it's supposed to be. A TNG era captain would probably have had a meeting in the ship's conference room and someone would have mentioned the missing planet.
– Alonso del Arte
Aug 5 '14 at 13:47
4
4
The planet was where Ceti Alpha VI should have been, not where it belonged as Ceti Alpha V. Its orbit had shifted and it could easily have been mistaken as Ceti Alpha VI if they were only judging by its orbit. Of course, all the other aspects would be wrong, like size, orbital speed, geography, and so forth. It was a science vessel. You'd think someone on board would actually be a scientist and notice.
– BBlake
Aug 5 '14 at 16:13
The planet was where Ceti Alpha VI should have been, not where it belonged as Ceti Alpha V. Its orbit had shifted and it could easily have been mistaken as Ceti Alpha VI if they were only judging by its orbit. Of course, all the other aspects would be wrong, like size, orbital speed, geography, and so forth. It was a science vessel. You'd think someone on board would actually be a scientist and notice.
– BBlake
Aug 5 '14 at 16:13
|
show 1 more comment
They reasonably thought they were on Ceti Alpha VI because that had been it's orbit. Space is a very large and busy place so obviously Stellar Cartography is kept very busy.
A single planet taking another's place in orbit in a remote solar system could be easily missed.
It's possible also that the star chart could have mistakenly logged the surviving planet as Ceti Alpha VI and removed Ceti Alpha V as being destroyed. No one had been back to confirm this apparent fact since Khan and company had been placed there. They obviously had no idea that it was in fact Ceti Alpha VI that had been destroyed and it's orbit taken over by Ceti Alpha V. Who knew? Thinking that Ceti Alpha V was destroyed is reasonable due to it missing from it's orbit.
The kind of planetary 'musical chairs' that occurred is obviously very rare so their surprise by such an unusual/rare occurrence would be a reasonable reaction.
Chekov though, being there firsthand when Khan was marooned, was quick to put 2 and 2 together and recognized their danger after seeing the ship's name, 'Botany Bay'.
1
Blake's comment on Kyle's answer brings up a couple of very good points. Maybe a Klingon crew wouldn't care about this sort of thing, but a Starfleet science vessel? As for Chekov "being there firsthand when Khan was marooned", that's a whole can of worms for another day.
– Robert Soupe
Aug 6 '14 at 3:38
add a comment |
They reasonably thought they were on Ceti Alpha VI because that had been it's orbit. Space is a very large and busy place so obviously Stellar Cartography is kept very busy.
A single planet taking another's place in orbit in a remote solar system could be easily missed.
It's possible also that the star chart could have mistakenly logged the surviving planet as Ceti Alpha VI and removed Ceti Alpha V as being destroyed. No one had been back to confirm this apparent fact since Khan and company had been placed there. They obviously had no idea that it was in fact Ceti Alpha VI that had been destroyed and it's orbit taken over by Ceti Alpha V. Who knew? Thinking that Ceti Alpha V was destroyed is reasonable due to it missing from it's orbit.
The kind of planetary 'musical chairs' that occurred is obviously very rare so their surprise by such an unusual/rare occurrence would be a reasonable reaction.
Chekov though, being there firsthand when Khan was marooned, was quick to put 2 and 2 together and recognized their danger after seeing the ship's name, 'Botany Bay'.
1
Blake's comment on Kyle's answer brings up a couple of very good points. Maybe a Klingon crew wouldn't care about this sort of thing, but a Starfleet science vessel? As for Chekov "being there firsthand when Khan was marooned", that's a whole can of worms for another day.
– Robert Soupe
Aug 6 '14 at 3:38
add a comment |
They reasonably thought they were on Ceti Alpha VI because that had been it's orbit. Space is a very large and busy place so obviously Stellar Cartography is kept very busy.
A single planet taking another's place in orbit in a remote solar system could be easily missed.
It's possible also that the star chart could have mistakenly logged the surviving planet as Ceti Alpha VI and removed Ceti Alpha V as being destroyed. No one had been back to confirm this apparent fact since Khan and company had been placed there. They obviously had no idea that it was in fact Ceti Alpha VI that had been destroyed and it's orbit taken over by Ceti Alpha V. Who knew? Thinking that Ceti Alpha V was destroyed is reasonable due to it missing from it's orbit.
The kind of planetary 'musical chairs' that occurred is obviously very rare so their surprise by such an unusual/rare occurrence would be a reasonable reaction.
Chekov though, being there firsthand when Khan was marooned, was quick to put 2 and 2 together and recognized their danger after seeing the ship's name, 'Botany Bay'.
They reasonably thought they were on Ceti Alpha VI because that had been it's orbit. Space is a very large and busy place so obviously Stellar Cartography is kept very busy.
A single planet taking another's place in orbit in a remote solar system could be easily missed.
It's possible also that the star chart could have mistakenly logged the surviving planet as Ceti Alpha VI and removed Ceti Alpha V as being destroyed. No one had been back to confirm this apparent fact since Khan and company had been placed there. They obviously had no idea that it was in fact Ceti Alpha VI that had been destroyed and it's orbit taken over by Ceti Alpha V. Who knew? Thinking that Ceti Alpha V was destroyed is reasonable due to it missing from it's orbit.
The kind of planetary 'musical chairs' that occurred is obviously very rare so their surprise by such an unusual/rare occurrence would be a reasonable reaction.
Chekov though, being there firsthand when Khan was marooned, was quick to put 2 and 2 together and recognized their danger after seeing the ship's name, 'Botany Bay'.
edited Aug 6 '14 at 21:38
answered Aug 5 '14 at 20:32
MorganMorgan
15.7k1993192
15.7k1993192
1
Blake's comment on Kyle's answer brings up a couple of very good points. Maybe a Klingon crew wouldn't care about this sort of thing, but a Starfleet science vessel? As for Chekov "being there firsthand when Khan was marooned", that's a whole can of worms for another day.
– Robert Soupe
Aug 6 '14 at 3:38
add a comment |
1
Blake's comment on Kyle's answer brings up a couple of very good points. Maybe a Klingon crew wouldn't care about this sort of thing, but a Starfleet science vessel? As for Chekov "being there firsthand when Khan was marooned", that's a whole can of worms for another day.
– Robert Soupe
Aug 6 '14 at 3:38
1
1
Blake's comment on Kyle's answer brings up a couple of very good points. Maybe a Klingon crew wouldn't care about this sort of thing, but a Starfleet science vessel? As for Chekov "being there firsthand when Khan was marooned", that's a whole can of worms for another day.
– Robert Soupe
Aug 6 '14 at 3:38
Blake's comment on Kyle's answer brings up a couple of very good points. Maybe a Klingon crew wouldn't care about this sort of thing, but a Starfleet science vessel? As for Chekov "being there firsthand when Khan was marooned", that's a whole can of worms for another day.
– Robert Soupe
Aug 6 '14 at 3:38
add a comment |
Given the sensors reported:
CHEKOV: "Does it have to be completely lifeless?"
TERRELL: "Don't tell me you've found something."
CHEKOV: "We've picked up a minor energy flux reading on one dynoscanner."
TERRELL: "Damn! Are you sure? Maybe the scanner's out of adjustment."
CHEKOV: "I suppose it could be a particle of preanimate matter caught in the matrix."
And seem to overlook Khan, his merry men and Ceti Alpha Five's only remaining indigenous lifeform. I would say there sensors are more than slightly 'out of adjustment' and they're lucky to know what side of the galaxy there on, much less how many planets are in the system.
We could chalk up the problem to equipment malfunction.
add a comment |
Given the sensors reported:
CHEKOV: "Does it have to be completely lifeless?"
TERRELL: "Don't tell me you've found something."
CHEKOV: "We've picked up a minor energy flux reading on one dynoscanner."
TERRELL: "Damn! Are you sure? Maybe the scanner's out of adjustment."
CHEKOV: "I suppose it could be a particle of preanimate matter caught in the matrix."
And seem to overlook Khan, his merry men and Ceti Alpha Five's only remaining indigenous lifeform. I would say there sensors are more than slightly 'out of adjustment' and they're lucky to know what side of the galaxy there on, much less how many planets are in the system.
We could chalk up the problem to equipment malfunction.
add a comment |
Given the sensors reported:
CHEKOV: "Does it have to be completely lifeless?"
TERRELL: "Don't tell me you've found something."
CHEKOV: "We've picked up a minor energy flux reading on one dynoscanner."
TERRELL: "Damn! Are you sure? Maybe the scanner's out of adjustment."
CHEKOV: "I suppose it could be a particle of preanimate matter caught in the matrix."
And seem to overlook Khan, his merry men and Ceti Alpha Five's only remaining indigenous lifeform. I would say there sensors are more than slightly 'out of adjustment' and they're lucky to know what side of the galaxy there on, much less how many planets are in the system.
We could chalk up the problem to equipment malfunction.
Given the sensors reported:
CHEKOV: "Does it have to be completely lifeless?"
TERRELL: "Don't tell me you've found something."
CHEKOV: "We've picked up a minor energy flux reading on one dynoscanner."
TERRELL: "Damn! Are you sure? Maybe the scanner's out of adjustment."
CHEKOV: "I suppose it could be a particle of preanimate matter caught in the matrix."
And seem to overlook Khan, his merry men and Ceti Alpha Five's only remaining indigenous lifeform. I would say there sensors are more than slightly 'out of adjustment' and they're lucky to know what side of the galaxy there on, much less how many planets are in the system.
We could chalk up the problem to equipment malfunction.
edited Jun 10 '15 at 21:16
Null♦
54.4k18229312
54.4k18229312
answered Jun 10 '15 at 20:43
michaelmichael
211
211
add a comment |
add a comment |
The thing that I just realized is that Kirk MUST HAVE known what had happened to Ceti Alpha V and VI by the time Khan was discovered by Chekov and Terrell.
If you go through the transcripts of 'Wrath of Khan', somehow Kirk knows what Khan 'blames him for', before Chekov or Terrell or anyone else has a chance to explain things. It really is as if Kirk is not too surprised about Khan's vengeful rage.
I think Kirk knew what had happened during Khan's exile, and decided to cover it up and let it go.
1
Okay, but how does this answer the question, though?
– Null♦
Mar 11 '16 at 2:51
Nonetheless a reason to rewatch this classic.
– Robert Soupe
Mar 11 '16 at 16:50
add a comment |
The thing that I just realized is that Kirk MUST HAVE known what had happened to Ceti Alpha V and VI by the time Khan was discovered by Chekov and Terrell.
If you go through the transcripts of 'Wrath of Khan', somehow Kirk knows what Khan 'blames him for', before Chekov or Terrell or anyone else has a chance to explain things. It really is as if Kirk is not too surprised about Khan's vengeful rage.
I think Kirk knew what had happened during Khan's exile, and decided to cover it up and let it go.
1
Okay, but how does this answer the question, though?
– Null♦
Mar 11 '16 at 2:51
Nonetheless a reason to rewatch this classic.
– Robert Soupe
Mar 11 '16 at 16:50
add a comment |
The thing that I just realized is that Kirk MUST HAVE known what had happened to Ceti Alpha V and VI by the time Khan was discovered by Chekov and Terrell.
If you go through the transcripts of 'Wrath of Khan', somehow Kirk knows what Khan 'blames him for', before Chekov or Terrell or anyone else has a chance to explain things. It really is as if Kirk is not too surprised about Khan's vengeful rage.
I think Kirk knew what had happened during Khan's exile, and decided to cover it up and let it go.
The thing that I just realized is that Kirk MUST HAVE known what had happened to Ceti Alpha V and VI by the time Khan was discovered by Chekov and Terrell.
If you go through the transcripts of 'Wrath of Khan', somehow Kirk knows what Khan 'blames him for', before Chekov or Terrell or anyone else has a chance to explain things. It really is as if Kirk is not too surprised about Khan's vengeful rage.
I think Kirk knew what had happened during Khan's exile, and decided to cover it up and let it go.
answered Mar 11 '16 at 2:21
SarxisSarxis
211
211
1
Okay, but how does this answer the question, though?
– Null♦
Mar 11 '16 at 2:51
Nonetheless a reason to rewatch this classic.
– Robert Soupe
Mar 11 '16 at 16:50
add a comment |
1
Okay, but how does this answer the question, though?
– Null♦
Mar 11 '16 at 2:51
Nonetheless a reason to rewatch this classic.
– Robert Soupe
Mar 11 '16 at 16:50
1
1
Okay, but how does this answer the question, though?
– Null♦
Mar 11 '16 at 2:51
Okay, but how does this answer the question, though?
– Null♦
Mar 11 '16 at 2:51
Nonetheless a reason to rewatch this classic.
– Robert Soupe
Mar 11 '16 at 16:50
Nonetheless a reason to rewatch this classic.
– Robert Soupe
Mar 11 '16 at 16:50
add a comment |
As a kid watching ST2 I always assumed Dr. Carrol Marcus or the Son gave Reliant wrong star chart info. Heck the Son was already doing things wrong by Starfleet's books. Sure it's a Federation ship, but looking at planets that Dr. Marcus has hand picked out. To me that was just odd.
Still a great movie. Every Star Trek movie has flaws, but with that said IMO I love rewatching ST2 and ST3 the most. Star Trek 5 I also love to watch but more as a funny drinking game type movie. Part 1 is awesome right up to the point of the 3 Klingon Battlecruisers getting destroyed. After that eject and pop in ST3 for some real space exploration. Pop in ST2 if you want updated version of Balance of Terror type action TOS episode
New contributor
add a comment |
As a kid watching ST2 I always assumed Dr. Carrol Marcus or the Son gave Reliant wrong star chart info. Heck the Son was already doing things wrong by Starfleet's books. Sure it's a Federation ship, but looking at planets that Dr. Marcus has hand picked out. To me that was just odd.
Still a great movie. Every Star Trek movie has flaws, but with that said IMO I love rewatching ST2 and ST3 the most. Star Trek 5 I also love to watch but more as a funny drinking game type movie. Part 1 is awesome right up to the point of the 3 Klingon Battlecruisers getting destroyed. After that eject and pop in ST3 for some real space exploration. Pop in ST2 if you want updated version of Balance of Terror type action TOS episode
New contributor
add a comment |
As a kid watching ST2 I always assumed Dr. Carrol Marcus or the Son gave Reliant wrong star chart info. Heck the Son was already doing things wrong by Starfleet's books. Sure it's a Federation ship, but looking at planets that Dr. Marcus has hand picked out. To me that was just odd.
Still a great movie. Every Star Trek movie has flaws, but with that said IMO I love rewatching ST2 and ST3 the most. Star Trek 5 I also love to watch but more as a funny drinking game type movie. Part 1 is awesome right up to the point of the 3 Klingon Battlecruisers getting destroyed. After that eject and pop in ST3 for some real space exploration. Pop in ST2 if you want updated version of Balance of Terror type action TOS episode
New contributor
As a kid watching ST2 I always assumed Dr. Carrol Marcus or the Son gave Reliant wrong star chart info. Heck the Son was already doing things wrong by Starfleet's books. Sure it's a Federation ship, but looking at planets that Dr. Marcus has hand picked out. To me that was just odd.
Still a great movie. Every Star Trek movie has flaws, but with that said IMO I love rewatching ST2 and ST3 the most. Star Trek 5 I also love to watch but more as a funny drinking game type movie. Part 1 is awesome right up to the point of the 3 Klingon Battlecruisers getting destroyed. After that eject and pop in ST3 for some real space exploration. Pop in ST2 if you want updated version of Balance of Terror type action TOS episode
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answered 3 mins ago
Jerry LoweJerry Lowe
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It's a definite plot-hole, that's for sure. I've always thought so myself. I think the best explanation is that the destruction of Ceti Alpha VI altered the orbit of Ceti Alpha V to the point where it occupied (roughly) the same space as Ceti Alpha VI would have, and Starfleet approached the system from a direction which would normally have obscured Ceti Alpha V - such as approaching from the opposite side of the sun - and therefore got a little careless.
– James Sheridan
Aug 5 '14 at 3:30