Modification to Chariots for Heavy Cavalry Analogue for 4-armed raceHow would a crouching frog person...
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Modification to Chariots for Heavy Cavalry Analogue for 4-armed race
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$begingroup$
I have a 4-armed race in my world that is the predominant species of a country. [ Country A] This race is also too heavy to ride horses as cavalry. A major enemy of this country is a human race that is able to use heavy cavalry. [Country B] To help alleviate this issue, Country A uses chariots to use as their analogue to heavy cavalry.
Now I am aware that historically, chariots were not generally used in the way a cavalry charge was, instead being used more as mobile platforms for missiles.
Question: Using medievalesque (akin to mid-late middle ages) technology, how could this 4-armed race modify or use the chariot so that it would be reasonably effective for use as an analogue to the heavy cavalry charge.
For information about the equipment of these armies.
Country B (the humans with heavy cavalry)
- Main infantry: Shield, spear, sword backup. Chainmail. (Used in shieldwalls)
- Crossbows
- Ballista arbalests
- Light cavalry
- Heavy cavalry.
Country A (the 4-arms)
- Spearmen: Spear, side-arm, shield, scale armor
- Falxmen: Falx, side-arm, scale armor
- Crossbows
- Chariots
small number of human light cavalry (there are in-world reasons this number cannot be increased to be a large enough force for their needs.)
For an example battle that these chariots might be used in, assume relatively flat terrain and well-disciplined troops on both sides.
Country A (4-arms)
- 1000 spearmen
- 200 falxmen
- 200 crossbows
- 20 light [human] cavalry
- 300 chariots
Country B (humans)
- 900 spearmen
- 300 crossbows
- 50 ballista arbalests
- 120 light cavalry
- 360 heavy cavalry
technology warfare
asked 3 hours ago
mVitusmVitus
405214
$endgroup$
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
I have a 4-armed race in my world that is the predominant species of a country. [ Country A] This race is also too heavy to ride horses as cavalry. A major enemy of this country is a human race that is able to use heavy cavalry. [Country B] To help alleviate this issue, Country A uses chariots to use as their analogue to heavy cavalry.
Now I am aware that historically, chariots were not generally used in the way a cavalry charge was, instead being used more as mobile platforms for missiles.
Question: Using medievalesque (akin to mid-late middle ages) technology, how could this 4-armed race modify or use the chariot so that it would be reasonably effective for use as an analogue to the heavy cavalry charge.
For information about the equipment of these armies.
Country B (the humans with heavy cavalry)
- Main infantry: Shield, spear, sword backup. Chainmail. (Used in shieldwalls)
- Crossbows
- Ballista arbalests
- Light cavalry
- Heavy cavalry.
Country A (the 4-arms)
- Spearmen: Spear, side-arm, shield, scale armor
- Falxmen: Falx, side-arm, scale armor
- Crossbows
- Chariots
small number of human light cavalry (there are in-world reasons this number cannot be increased to be a large enough force for their needs.)
For an example battle that these chariots might be used in, assume relatively flat terrain and well-disciplined troops on both sides.
Country A (4-arms)
- 1000 spearmen
- 200 falxmen
- 200 crossbows
- 20 light [human] cavalry
- 300 chariots
Country B (humans)
- 900 spearmen
- 300 crossbows
- 50 ballista arbalests
- 120 light cavalry
- 360 heavy cavalry
technology warfare
asked 3 hours ago
mVitusmVitus
405214
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
What's wrong with Hussite Wagenburgs? They work as mobile fortifications, cannot be taken by heavy cavalry, and provide a convenient platform for the much stronger quadrumanous spearmen and crossbowmen to strike at their enemies. Plus they are honest for-real late medieval technology.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Not an answer but if they are too heavy for horses they do not actually need heavy cavalry. A charge from their pikemen would be just as good because it is mass and size that makes cavalry charges lethal. Lower speed and mobility but also lower cost and maintenance. In some ways it would even be better since they could better charge in difficult terrain or against formations where horses are too smart to go. (Because horse break their legs easily if they are not careful and a horse with broken legs is usually a dead horse.)
$endgroup$
– Ville Niemi
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@VilleNiemi - they are very heavy. Quite obese. They are not going to be doing any charging, these folks. Their chariots are more chairiots.
$endgroup$
– Willk
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Willk Really love the "chairiot" :) If they are mobile enough to do infantry, they can charge well enough. The difficulty they have moving is the exact same difficulty the other guy has stopping them. Would you try to stop large and obese guy coming at you when you are in a formation so you cannot step out of the way? Not to mention these guys have a spear, shield, armor, four arms, an additional side arm... Lots of mass with metal surfaces and pointy bits.
$endgroup$
– Ville Niemi
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Where did they get their horses from? Hard to see how they're the predominant species if they're overweight and not very mobile
$endgroup$
– Kilisi
2 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
I have a 4-armed race in my world that is the predominant species of a country. [ Country A] This race is also too heavy to ride horses as cavalry. A major enemy of this country is a human race that is able to use heavy cavalry. [Country B] To help alleviate this issue, Country A uses chariots to use as their analogue to heavy cavalry.
Now I am aware that historically, chariots were not generally used in the way a cavalry charge was, instead being used more as mobile platforms for missiles.
Question: Using medievalesque (akin to mid-late middle ages) technology, how could this 4-armed race modify or use the chariot so that it would be reasonably effective for use as an analogue to the heavy cavalry charge.
For information about the equipment of these armies.
Country B (the humans with heavy cavalry)
- Main infantry: Shield, spear, sword backup. Chainmail. (Used in shieldwalls)
- Crossbows
- Ballista arbalests
- Light cavalry
- Heavy cavalry.
Country A (the 4-arms)
- Spearmen: Spear, side-arm, shield, scale armor
- Falxmen: Falx, side-arm, scale armor
- Crossbows
- Chariots
small number of human light cavalry (there are in-world reasons this number cannot be increased to be a large enough force for their needs.)
For an example battle that these chariots might be used in, assume relatively flat terrain and well-disciplined troops on both sides.
Country A (4-arms)
- 1000 spearmen
- 200 falxmen
- 200 crossbows
- 20 light [human] cavalry
- 300 chariots
Country B (humans)
- 900 spearmen
- 300 crossbows
- 50 ballista arbalests
- 120 light cavalry
- 360 heavy cavalry
technology warfare
asked 3 hours ago
mVitusmVitus
405214
$endgroup$
I have a 4-armed race in my world that is the predominant species of a country. [ Country A] This race is also too heavy to ride horses as cavalry. A major enemy of this country is a human race that is able to use heavy cavalry. [Country B] To help alleviate this issue, Country A uses chariots to use as their analogue to heavy cavalry.
Now I am aware that historically, chariots were not generally used in the way a cavalry charge was, instead being used more as mobile platforms for missiles.
Question: Using medievalesque (akin to mid-late middle ages) technology, how could this 4-armed race modify or use the chariot so that it would be reasonably effective for use as an analogue to the heavy cavalry charge.
For information about the equipment of these armies.
Country B (the humans with heavy cavalry)
- Main infantry: Shield, spear, sword backup. Chainmail. (Used in shieldwalls)
- Crossbows
- Ballista arbalests
- Light cavalry
- Heavy cavalry.
Country A (the 4-arms)
- Spearmen: Spear, side-arm, shield, scale armor
- Falxmen: Falx, side-arm, scale armor
- Crossbows
- Chariots
small number of human light cavalry (there are in-world reasons this number cannot be increased to be a large enough force for their needs.)
For an example battle that these chariots might be used in, assume relatively flat terrain and well-disciplined troops on both sides.
Country A (4-arms)
- 1000 spearmen
- 200 falxmen
- 200 crossbows
- 20 light [human] cavalry
- 300 chariots
Country B (humans)
- 900 spearmen
- 300 crossbows
- 50 ballista arbalests
- 120 light cavalry
- 360 heavy cavalry
technology warfare
technology warfare
asked 3 hours ago
mVitusmVitus
405214
asked 3 hours ago
mVitusmVitus
405214
asked 3 hours ago
mVitusmVitus
405214
asked 3 hours ago
mVitusmVitus
405214
asked 3 hours ago
mVitusmVitus
405214
405214
3
$begingroup$
What's wrong with Hussite Wagenburgs? They work as mobile fortifications, cannot be taken by heavy cavalry, and provide a convenient platform for the much stronger quadrumanous spearmen and crossbowmen to strike at their enemies. Plus they are honest for-real late medieval technology.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Not an answer but if they are too heavy for horses they do not actually need heavy cavalry. A charge from their pikemen would be just as good because it is mass and size that makes cavalry charges lethal. Lower speed and mobility but also lower cost and maintenance. In some ways it would even be better since they could better charge in difficult terrain or against formations where horses are too smart to go. (Because horse break their legs easily if they are not careful and a horse with broken legs is usually a dead horse.)
$endgroup$
– Ville Niemi
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@VilleNiemi - they are very heavy. Quite obese. They are not going to be doing any charging, these folks. Their chariots are more chairiots.
$endgroup$
– Willk
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Willk Really love the "chairiot" :) If they are mobile enough to do infantry, they can charge well enough. The difficulty they have moving is the exact same difficulty the other guy has stopping them. Would you try to stop large and obese guy coming at you when you are in a formation so you cannot step out of the way? Not to mention these guys have a spear, shield, armor, four arms, an additional side arm... Lots of mass with metal surfaces and pointy bits.
$endgroup$
– Ville Niemi
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Where did they get their horses from? Hard to see how they're the predominant species if they're overweight and not very mobile
$endgroup$
– Kilisi
2 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
3
$begingroup$
What's wrong with Hussite Wagenburgs? They work as mobile fortifications, cannot be taken by heavy cavalry, and provide a convenient platform for the much stronger quadrumanous spearmen and crossbowmen to strike at their enemies. Plus they are honest for-real late medieval technology.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Not an answer but if they are too heavy for horses they do not actually need heavy cavalry. A charge from their pikemen would be just as good because it is mass and size that makes cavalry charges lethal. Lower speed and mobility but also lower cost and maintenance. In some ways it would even be better since they could better charge in difficult terrain or against formations where horses are too smart to go. (Because horse break their legs easily if they are not careful and a horse with broken legs is usually a dead horse.)
$endgroup$
– Ville Niemi
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@VilleNiemi - they are very heavy. Quite obese. They are not going to be doing any charging, these folks. Their chariots are more chairiots.
$endgroup$
– Willk
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Willk Really love the "chairiot" :) If they are mobile enough to do infantry, they can charge well enough. The difficulty they have moving is the exact same difficulty the other guy has stopping them. Would you try to stop large and obese guy coming at you when you are in a formation so you cannot step out of the way? Not to mention these guys have a spear, shield, armor, four arms, an additional side arm... Lots of mass with metal surfaces and pointy bits.
$endgroup$
– Ville Niemi
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Where did they get their horses from? Hard to see how they're the predominant species if they're overweight and not very mobile
$endgroup$
– Kilisi
2 hours ago
3
3
$begingroup$
What's wrong with Hussite Wagenburgs? They work as mobile fortifications, cannot be taken by heavy cavalry, and provide a convenient platform for the much stronger quadrumanous spearmen and crossbowmen to strike at their enemies. Plus they are honest for-real late medieval technology.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
What's wrong with Hussite Wagenburgs? They work as mobile fortifications, cannot be taken by heavy cavalry, and provide a convenient platform for the much stronger quadrumanous spearmen and crossbowmen to strike at their enemies. Plus they are honest for-real late medieval technology.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
3 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Not an answer but if they are too heavy for horses they do not actually need heavy cavalry. A charge from their pikemen would be just as good because it is mass and size that makes cavalry charges lethal. Lower speed and mobility but also lower cost and maintenance. In some ways it would even be better since they could better charge in difficult terrain or against formations where horses are too smart to go. (Because horse break their legs easily if they are not careful and a horse with broken legs is usually a dead horse.)
$endgroup$
– Ville Niemi
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not an answer but if they are too heavy for horses they do not actually need heavy cavalry. A charge from their pikemen would be just as good because it is mass and size that makes cavalry charges lethal. Lower speed and mobility but also lower cost and maintenance. In some ways it would even be better since they could better charge in difficult terrain or against formations where horses are too smart to go. (Because horse break their legs easily if they are not careful and a horse with broken legs is usually a dead horse.)
$endgroup$
– Ville Niemi
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@VilleNiemi - they are very heavy. Quite obese. They are not going to be doing any charging, these folks. Their chariots are more chairiots.
$endgroup$
– Willk
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@VilleNiemi - they are very heavy. Quite obese. They are not going to be doing any charging, these folks. Their chariots are more chairiots.
$endgroup$
– Willk
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Willk Really love the "chairiot" :) If they are mobile enough to do infantry, they can charge well enough. The difficulty they have moving is the exact same difficulty the other guy has stopping them. Would you try to stop large and obese guy coming at you when you are in a formation so you cannot step out of the way? Not to mention these guys have a spear, shield, armor, four arms, an additional side arm... Lots of mass with metal surfaces and pointy bits.
$endgroup$
– Ville Niemi
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Willk Really love the "chairiot" :) If they are mobile enough to do infantry, they can charge well enough. The difficulty they have moving is the exact same difficulty the other guy has stopping them. Would you try to stop large and obese guy coming at you when you are in a formation so you cannot step out of the way? Not to mention these guys have a spear, shield, armor, four arms, an additional side arm... Lots of mass with metal surfaces and pointy bits.
$endgroup$
– Ville Niemi
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Where did they get their horses from? Hard to see how they're the predominant species if they're overweight and not very mobile
$endgroup$
– Kilisi
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Where did they get their horses from? Hard to see how they're the predominant species if they're overweight and not very mobile
$endgroup$
– Kilisi
2 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
maybe make it more heavier or bigger to support more crossbow army and its up to you to give four wheel like sumerian warchariot or not, but not doing so probably make it unwieldy, and use tactic or formation as mobile fence or barricade while spearman support from behind or the gap of the charriot like how chinese deal with cavalry using wagon fort. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagon_fort
unless the 4arm cant play defensively and require them to go somewhere quickly.
answered 3 hours ago
Li JunLi Jun
1578
New contributor
Li Jun is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
While mounted horses make a better choice for riding straight in to enemy lines, before larger horses, stirrups, proper saddles, etc., chariots were used to charge into enemy lines. It's the whole reason scythed chariots were a thing.
But they were limited in the terrain they could be used on and generally less manoeuvrable and more fragile than mounted cavalry. But on flat ground they can and were used to charge enemy ranks.
Because of their lack of manoeuvrability a common tactic used against chariot charge was just to open ranks, let them pass and attack them from behind as they couldn't turn quickly to face the enemy before they closed ranks again.
So going back to the scythed chariots, one of their main uses was to break enemy ranks for light cavalry to fill and kill enemy ranks in disarray. In your world you could use larger chariots to carry troops close to the enemy lines quickly but lead these with smaller chariots to break enemy ranks for the newly arrived 4 armed warriors to fill that gap in the shield wall.
answered 2 hours ago
K MoK Mo
2,404514
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
maybe make it more heavier or bigger to support more crossbow army and its up to you to give four wheel like sumerian warchariot or not, but not doing so probably make it unwieldy, and use tactic or formation as mobile fence or barricade while spearman support from behind or the gap of the charriot like how chinese deal with cavalry using wagon fort. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagon_fort
unless the 4arm cant play defensively and require them to go somewhere quickly.
answered 3 hours ago
Li JunLi Jun
1578
New contributor
Li Jun is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
maybe make it more heavier or bigger to support more crossbow army and its up to you to give four wheel like sumerian warchariot or not, but not doing so probably make it unwieldy, and use tactic or formation as mobile fence or barricade while spearman support from behind or the gap of the charriot like how chinese deal with cavalry using wagon fort. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagon_fort
unless the 4arm cant play defensively and require them to go somewhere quickly.
answered 3 hours ago
Li JunLi Jun
1578
New contributor
Li Jun is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
maybe make it more heavier or bigger to support more crossbow army and its up to you to give four wheel like sumerian warchariot or not, but not doing so probably make it unwieldy, and use tactic or formation as mobile fence or barricade while spearman support from behind or the gap of the charriot like how chinese deal with cavalry using wagon fort. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagon_fort
unless the 4arm cant play defensively and require them to go somewhere quickly.
answered 3 hours ago
Li JunLi Jun
1578
New contributor
Li Jun is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
maybe make it more heavier or bigger to support more crossbow army and its up to you to give four wheel like sumerian warchariot or not, but not doing so probably make it unwieldy, and use tactic or formation as mobile fence or barricade while spearman support from behind or the gap of the charriot like how chinese deal with cavalry using wagon fort. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagon_fort
unless the 4arm cant play defensively and require them to go somewhere quickly.
answered 3 hours ago
Li JunLi Jun
1578
New contributor
Li Jun is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 3 hours ago
answered 3 hours ago
Li JunLi Jun
1578
New contributor
Li Jun is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 3 hours ago
Li JunLi Jun
1578
answered 3 hours ago
Li JunLi Jun
1578
1578
New contributor
Li Jun is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Li Jun is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Li Jun is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
While mounted horses make a better choice for riding straight in to enemy lines, before larger horses, stirrups, proper saddles, etc., chariots were used to charge into enemy lines. It's the whole reason scythed chariots were a thing.
But they were limited in the terrain they could be used on and generally less manoeuvrable and more fragile than mounted cavalry. But on flat ground they can and were used to charge enemy ranks.
Because of their lack of manoeuvrability a common tactic used against chariot charge was just to open ranks, let them pass and attack them from behind as they couldn't turn quickly to face the enemy before they closed ranks again.
So going back to the scythed chariots, one of their main uses was to break enemy ranks for light cavalry to fill and kill enemy ranks in disarray. In your world you could use larger chariots to carry troops close to the enemy lines quickly but lead these with smaller chariots to break enemy ranks for the newly arrived 4 armed warriors to fill that gap in the shield wall.
answered 2 hours ago
K MoK Mo
2,404514
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
While mounted horses make a better choice for riding straight in to enemy lines, before larger horses, stirrups, proper saddles, etc., chariots were used to charge into enemy lines. It's the whole reason scythed chariots were a thing.
But they were limited in the terrain they could be used on and generally less manoeuvrable and more fragile than mounted cavalry. But on flat ground they can and were used to charge enemy ranks.
Because of their lack of manoeuvrability a common tactic used against chariot charge was just to open ranks, let them pass and attack them from behind as they couldn't turn quickly to face the enemy before they closed ranks again.
So going back to the scythed chariots, one of their main uses was to break enemy ranks for light cavalry to fill and kill enemy ranks in disarray. In your world you could use larger chariots to carry troops close to the enemy lines quickly but lead these with smaller chariots to break enemy ranks for the newly arrived 4 armed warriors to fill that gap in the shield wall.
answered 2 hours ago
K MoK Mo
2,404514
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
While mounted horses make a better choice for riding straight in to enemy lines, before larger horses, stirrups, proper saddles, etc., chariots were used to charge into enemy lines. It's the whole reason scythed chariots were a thing.
But they were limited in the terrain they could be used on and generally less manoeuvrable and more fragile than mounted cavalry. But on flat ground they can and were used to charge enemy ranks.
Because of their lack of manoeuvrability a common tactic used against chariot charge was just to open ranks, let them pass and attack them from behind as they couldn't turn quickly to face the enemy before they closed ranks again.
So going back to the scythed chariots, one of their main uses was to break enemy ranks for light cavalry to fill and kill enemy ranks in disarray. In your world you could use larger chariots to carry troops close to the enemy lines quickly but lead these with smaller chariots to break enemy ranks for the newly arrived 4 armed warriors to fill that gap in the shield wall.
answered 2 hours ago
K MoK Mo
2,404514
$endgroup$
While mounted horses make a better choice for riding straight in to enemy lines, before larger horses, stirrups, proper saddles, etc., chariots were used to charge into enemy lines. It's the whole reason scythed chariots were a thing.
But they were limited in the terrain they could be used on and generally less manoeuvrable and more fragile than mounted cavalry. But on flat ground they can and were used to charge enemy ranks.
Because of their lack of manoeuvrability a common tactic used against chariot charge was just to open ranks, let them pass and attack them from behind as they couldn't turn quickly to face the enemy before they closed ranks again.
So going back to the scythed chariots, one of their main uses was to break enemy ranks for light cavalry to fill and kill enemy ranks in disarray. In your world you could use larger chariots to carry troops close to the enemy lines quickly but lead these with smaller chariots to break enemy ranks for the newly arrived 4 armed warriors to fill that gap in the shield wall.
answered 2 hours ago
K MoK Mo
2,404514
answered 2 hours ago
K MoK Mo
2,404514
answered 2 hours ago
K MoK Mo
2,404514
answered 2 hours ago
K MoK Mo
2,404514
2,404514
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3
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What's wrong with Hussite Wagenburgs? They work as mobile fortifications, cannot be taken by heavy cavalry, and provide a convenient platform for the much stronger quadrumanous spearmen and crossbowmen to strike at their enemies. Plus they are honest for-real late medieval technology.
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– AlexP
3 hours ago
1
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Not an answer but if they are too heavy for horses they do not actually need heavy cavalry. A charge from their pikemen would be just as good because it is mass and size that makes cavalry charges lethal. Lower speed and mobility but also lower cost and maintenance. In some ways it would even be better since they could better charge in difficult terrain or against formations where horses are too smart to go. (Because horse break their legs easily if they are not careful and a horse with broken legs is usually a dead horse.)
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– Ville Niemi
3 hours ago
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@VilleNiemi - they are very heavy. Quite obese. They are not going to be doing any charging, these folks. Their chariots are more chairiots.
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– Willk
2 hours ago
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@Willk Really love the "chairiot" :) If they are mobile enough to do infantry, they can charge well enough. The difficulty they have moving is the exact same difficulty the other guy has stopping them. Would you try to stop large and obese guy coming at you when you are in a formation so you cannot step out of the way? Not to mention these guys have a spear, shield, armor, four arms, an additional side arm... Lots of mass with metal surfaces and pointy bits.
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– Ville Niemi
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Where did they get their horses from? Hard to see how they're the predominant species if they're overweight and not very mobile
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– Kilisi
2 hours ago